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fidus quae tela gerebat Achates

English translation: the weapons which faithful Achates was bearing

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Latin term or phrase:fidus quae tela gerebat Achates
English translation:the weapons which faithful Achates was bearing
Entered by: Joseph Brazauskas
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15:33 Oct 19, 2007
Latin to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Aeneid I:88 (I think)
Latin term or phrase: fidus quae tela gerebat Achates
Hi,

I would have said, “faithful Achates who carried the missiles” but I'm worried about the quae – as Achates was a man I would have expected the relative agreeing with him to be qui not quae.

All the best,

Simon
SeiTT
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:22
the weapons which faithful Achates was bearing
Explanation:
Literally, 'which weapons faithful Achates was bearing'. 'Quae' agrees with 'tela' and is a relative pronoun. In both Latin prose and poetry, the antecedent is very often found in the relative clause rather than in the corresponding demonstrative clause to which the relative would refer. Examples are numberless; cf., e.g., Caesar, BG, 4.7: iter in ea loca facere coepit, quibus in locis esse Germanos audiebat.

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Note added at 22 hrs (2007-10-20 14:32:02 GMT)
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The antedecent of 'quae' is 'sagittas', but 'quae' is neuter plural accusative because it agrees with 'tela', which word itself refers to 'sagittas'. It is, in effect, the antedecent repeated. As stated above, the antecedent is frequently found in the relative clause, often repeated, by a kind of attraction.
Selected response from:

Joseph Brazauskas
United States
Grading comment
many thanks excellent as ever
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2sagittasque corripuit, fidus quae tela gerebat AchatesLeonardo Marcello Pignataro
5the weapons which faithful Achates was bearing
Joseph Brazauskas
4faithful Achates carried some arrows
Adriana Penco


  

Answers


51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
faithful Achates carried some arrows


Explanation:
I believe quae is an indefinite pronoun here: some. It is neuter, accusative, plural and goes together with "tela".
I prefer "arrows". But check it well within the Aeneida context, I don't have a copy here right now (Book I?). Good luck!

Adriana Penco
Local time: 09:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
the weapons which faithful Achates was bearing


Explanation:
Literally, 'which weapons faithful Achates was bearing'. 'Quae' agrees with 'tela' and is a relative pronoun. In both Latin prose and poetry, the antecedent is very often found in the relative clause rather than in the corresponding demonstrative clause to which the relative would refer. Examples are numberless; cf., e.g., Caesar, BG, 4.7: iter in ea loca facere coepit, quibus in locis esse Germanos audiebat.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2007-10-20 14:32:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The antedecent of 'quae' is 'sagittas', but 'quae' is neuter plural accusative because it agrees with 'tela', which word itself refers to 'sagittas'. It is, in effect, the antedecent repeated. As stated above, the antecedent is frequently found in the relative clause, often repeated, by a kind of attraction.

Joseph Brazauskas
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 56
Grading comment
many thanks excellent as ever
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
sagittasque corripuit, fidus quae tela gerebat Achates


Explanation:
*quae* is a proper relative here:
a. took the arrows, the arms *that* faithful Achates was carrying
b. took the arrows that faithful Achates was carrying as his arms

It can be referred either to *tela*, which will be a predicative of *sagittas* " (a.) [et corripuit sagittas, tela quae fidus...]
or to *sagittas*, and *tela* will be an accusative of specification (b.) ["et corripuit sagittas, quae tela fidus...]

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Note added at 1 day23 mins (2007-10-20 15:56:30 GMT)
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The neuter *quae* is a regular neuter, it's not attracted.

It's my fault I did not copy here the full two verses saying:
"Constitit hic arcumque manu celeresque sagittas corripuit, fidus quae tela gerebat Achates..."
He stopped there and wrenched the arch and the swift arrows that faithful Achates was carrying as his arms / the arms that faithful Achates was carrying". (Sorry for my poor English!)

Thus, if referred to *arcum* and *sagittas*, *quae* refers to things of different genders and is neuter as expected.

It has to be added that *quae tela* might even be a relative nexus, meaning "those arms which", still falling within the case of a predicative / apposition to "arcum et sagittas".

Leonardo Marcello Pignataro
Local time: 14:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jim Tucker
20 mins
  -> Ciao, Jim!

agree  kaydee
11 hrs
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Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO
Non-PRO (3): Jim Tucker, Leonardo Marcello Pignataro, Joseph Brazauskas


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Changes made by editors
Oct 20, 2007 - Changes made by Joseph Brazauskas:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term » KOG term
Oct 20, 2007 - Changes made by Joseph Brazauskas:
LevelPRO » Non-PRO


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