Labor voluptasque dissimillima natura,societate quadam inter se naturali sunt iu
English translation: Work and pleasure, though of dissimilar nature, have become joined together...
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11:02 Nov 4, 2010
Latin to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Latin Quote
Latin term or phrase:Labor voluptasque dissimillima natura,societate quadam inter se naturali sunt iu
I need to translate in English this quote from Titus Livius. It should be from Ad Urbe Condita, Book 5.
Explanation: ....by a sort of natural association."
Please see discussion above, esp. on the appropriateness of this quote for a sundial.
Might have been a profound philosophical statement about contrasting meanings of 'natura,' but since it's Livy I think we can assume it's just klutzy writing.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 14 hrs (2010-11-05 01:10:35 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Note also that there are several ways of saying "X and Y" in Latin, and this one "X Yque" generally implies a particular closeness between the elements: these are things that belong together, or function together to form a whole.
This passage is a little bit clearer if you look at the preceding sentence:
nec opera sine emolumento nec emolumentum ferme sine inpensa opera est. Labor voluptasque....
I would translate the 2 sentences like this:
"There is neither work without reward, nor reward, generally, without work expended. Work and pleasure, though dissimilar by nature, have become joined together by a sort of natural association."
I makes a certain sense to put this on a sundial, because then all the hours of the day -- work and pleasure -- are accounted for.
(Note to asker: that should be AB urbe condita, not ad.)
You don't say which word you looked up. - But I think it must hinge about "naturli". I am a little puzzled by that form as I would rather have expected "naturaliter".
But I would like to know how you or OLD get "purpose" in this quote - or generally - from "naturalis".
Roland, my source for my translation is the Oxford Latin Dictionary s.v. Are you arguing from the context in Livy, or merely from the cited translations? I didn't look up the passage, I freely admit. But it is generally accepted that the OLD is a distinct improvement, based on rereading of the sources, over the 19th-century lexicography that A & G had at their disposal. I was reading the Latin, not citing a published source.
If you have more to say here, perhaps we should continue this conversation privately.
"purpose" or even "common purpose" for "union" might sound plausible, but it is not warranted by source. - Here are quotes for "union" and "alliance" and I saw a similar translation into De.
Work and pleasure, though of dissimilar nature, have become joined together...
Explanation: ....by a sort of natural association."
Please see discussion above, esp. on the appropriateness of this quote for a sundial.
Might have been a profound philosophical statement about contrasting meanings of 'natura,' but since it's Livy I think we can assume it's just klutzy writing.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 14 hrs (2010-11-05 01:10:35 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Note also that there are several ways of saying "X and Y" in Latin, and this one "X Yque" generally implies a particular closeness between the elements: these are things that belong together, or function together to form a whole.
Jim Tucker United States Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 16
Although toil and pleasure have a different nature, they form together a sort of natural community
Explanation: In classical Latin, "labor" was not equivalent to work. It gave the idea of distress, fatigue, hardship, toil... I mean, the translation should stress somehow the idea of the fatigue caused by work, so, at least, it should say "Hard work". This way the contrast with "pleasure" is clearer.
The sense of "labor" as "work" came later, with Ecclesiastic Latin. Think of the "Ora et labora", i.e., "pray and work", of St Benedict's Rule
Luis Antonio de Larrauri Local time: 07:31 Specializes in field Native speaker of: Spanish PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: THANK YOU LUIS ANTONIO. VERY USEFUL SUGGESTION AND EXPLANATION.
The translation workplace 
