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Latin to English translations [PRO]
Religion / Roman Catholic doctrine | | Latin term or phrase: Sed signifer Sanctus Michael repraesentet eas [animas] in lucem sanctam | This is of course a sentence from the Offertorium of the Requiem Mass.
My question concerns what 'repraesentet' really means here. I find the standard translations one finds ("may he lead/may he conduct") singularly weak and inaccurate compared to other uses of the word I find cited in the Oxford Latin Dictionary and the Lewis and Short lexicon.
As best I can determine, this Latin is old--older than the Dies Irae, probably fifth century.
Here is the whole Offertorium for context:
Domine, Jesu Christe, Rex gloriæ,
libera animas omnium fidelium defunctorum
de pœnis inferni et de profundo lacu.
Libera eas de ore leonis,
ne absorbeat eas tartarus,
ne cadant in obscurum;
sed signifer sanctus Michæl
repræsentet eas in lucem sanctam,
quam olim Abrahæ promisisti et semini ejus.
Many thanks in advance for your thoughts! |
|  Stephen C. FarrandKudoZ activityQuestions: 8 (none open) ( 1 closed without grading) Answers: 58
United States
| | Local time: 01:32
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| | show, present | Explanation:
Taken into account that here lux is a symbol for God, I think that present is very appropiate, in the sense of to put before the eyes or face of someone.
Since "Signifer" means leader, the translation as "may he lead" conveys that idea of "leading", but I agree with you that is not accurate enough. If "produce" could be used with souls as a direct object, it could be an ideal rendering, but I am afraid is not the case.
I have found this example of usage for "present":
And further because there is nothing more pleasing to God in his ministers than purity cleanness and chastity of
life, which alone, with faith can present the souls of men to God, I ordain and lay down that if the aforesaid
chaplain shall have hem reproved once and a second and third time for sins of the flesh by me during my life and
after my death...
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-02-24 16:51:37 GMT)
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My dictionary defines repraesento as "(from re praesento): put before the eyes, represent, present, reproduce".
As well, praesento is defined as present, to put before the eyes, show, and, in a figurative sense, to offer up (Priscian)
Other examples:
The Life and Revelations of Saint Gertrude The Great. Book 5.... who generally appeared to her to present the souls with the offerings made for them with great joy; but Our Lord sometimes, of His own goodness and in ...
my.homewithgod.com/gertrude/book5/ - 140k - Cached - Similar pages
Three Selections from The Great MysteryHow can ye present the souls of men to God, and see not how their states are in his sight? How come ye to have fellowship in the spirit? ...
www.qis.net/~daruma/GreatMystery3.html - 247k - Cached - Similar pages
Schriftlichkeit im frühen Mittelalter - Google Books Resultby Ursula Schaefer - 1993 - Learning and scholarship - 292 pages
According to some, a place in heaven is also reserved for the good teacher as he has to present the souls under his care before the supreme judge on ...
books.google.es/books?isbn=3823342681...
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Note added at 5 hrs (2009-02-24 19:36:31 GMT)
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Aloisius Stephano Sal. Yes, one of the senses my dictionary gives to signifer was "guía, caudillo ", which could be translated as leader, guide, boss. (Our Spanish caudillo, Franco, was equivalent to the italian "Duce"...). This sense is found in Cicero, figuratively. Vale :) |
| Selected response from:
 Luis Antonio de Larrauri
Local time: 07:32
| Grading comment Multas gratias agimus!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer |
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26 mins confidence:  
2 hrs confidence: show, present
Explanation:
Taken into account that here lux is a symbol for God, I think that present is very appropiate, in the sense of to put before the eyes or face of someone.
Since "Signifer" means leader, the translation as "may he lead" conveys that idea of "leading", but I agree with you that is not accurate enough. If "produce" could be used with souls as a direct object, it could be an ideal rendering, but I am afraid is not the case.
I have found this example of usage for "present":
And further because there is nothing more pleasing to God in his ministers than purity cleanness and chastity of
life, which alone, with faith can present the souls of men to God, I ordain and lay down that if the aforesaid
chaplain shall have hem reproved once and a second and third time for sins of the flesh by me during my life and
after my death...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-02-24 16:51:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
My dictionary defines repraesento as "(from re praesento): put before the eyes, represent, present, reproduce".
As well, praesento is defined as present, to put before the eyes, show, and, in a figurative sense, to offer up (Priscian)
Other examples:
The Life and Revelations of Saint Gertrude The Great. Book 5.... who generally appeared to her to present the souls with the offerings made for them with great joy; but Our Lord sometimes, of His own goodness and in ...
my.homewithgod.com/gertrude/book5/ - 140k - Cached - Similar pages
Three Selections from The Great MysteryHow can ye present the souls of men to God, and see not how their states are in his sight? How come ye to have fellowship in the spirit? ...
www.qis.net/~daruma/GreatMystery3.html - 247k - Cached - Similar pages
Schriftlichkeit im frühen Mittelalter - Google Books Resultby Ursula Schaefer - 1993 - Learning and scholarship - 292 pages
According to some, a place in heaven is also reserved for the good teacher as he has to present the souls under his care before the supreme judge on ...
books.google.es/books?isbn=3823342681...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2009-02-24 19:36:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Aloisius Stephano Sal. Yes, one of the senses my dictionary gives to signifer was "guía, caudillo ", which could be translated as leader, guide, boss. (Our Spanish caudillo, Franco, was equivalent to the italian "Duce"...). This sense is found in Cicero, figuratively. Vale :)
Example sentence(s):- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deaston/Spital%20Charity%20stuff/Thomas%20De%20Aston's%20Charter.pdf
| | | | Notes to answerer
Asker: Stephanus Ludovico? Antonio Sal. The most helpful so far--thank you! Your examples are rather removed in time from the Offertorium text, but the examples you cite seem rather to echo the concept in it.
Asker: Signifer means "leader" only in a super-literal way (i.e. the standard is held up before the advancing troops). In English, "leader" means someone in charge (like Lat. dux).
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