Ele, seu, sua - third person non-specific in brazilian portuguese
English translation: Please, see the explanation below
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Portuguese term or phrase:
Ele, seu, sua - third person non-specific in brazilian portuguese
Portuguese to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Linguistics / Usage of language
Portuguese term or phrase:Ele, seu, sua - third person non-specific in brazilian portuguese
Hi,
I'd like to know how to better translate into English when in portuguese I have words like ELE (literally 'he', but in fact neutral, making reference to the enunciatee of the statement) and corresponding pronoums: seu, sua.
I'm always in doubt if I should stick to HE or use they for a more general meaning.
Thanks in advance.
>>
Segue-se a argumentação mediante a exposição da situação geral do empenho pela justiça e amor no mundo contemporâneo (contemporaneidade do enunciado). Assim, o enunciador visa aproximar-se de SEU enunciatário para que ELE atenda, por meio da realização de SUA performance, ao convite deixado por meio desta carta encíclica, “Viver o amor e, deste modo, fazer entrar a luz de Deus no mundo”.
The discussion continues as it presents the general situation on the effort for justice and love in the contemporary world (contemporaneity of the enunciation). Thus, the enunciator seeks to approach HIS (?) enunciatee so that HE (?) answers, through the achievement of HIS (?) performance, the call made through this encyclical letter, " To experience love and in this way to cause the light of God to enter into the world"
Explanation: As a suggestion, for this particular context,can you change a little bit the way to write it, such as:
"...approach THE enunciatee TO answer..."?
Thank you so much.
Actually, all the answers were pretty good, but I considered yours as the best fitting for the text I had. Specially the part I posted here was really confusing (badly written...) and rephrasing was the best thing to do, since even I couldn't understand the reference of some of the pronouns.
Thanks. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Guys, thanks so much for the answers. About the "enunciator", it is a semiotic term. It's not Portuguenglish, hehehe. Please, check if you want "key terms in semiotics". I could not use the term speaker here, it wouldn't be appropriate.
Wow, it's gonna be difficult choosing the best answer... Thanks.
The answer to your question hinges on the meaning of "enunciador," which would usually be 'speaker' but here appears to mean something different. Could you provide more background, please?
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Answers
1 hr confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
Please, see the explanation below
Explanation: As a suggestion, for this particular context,can you change a little bit the way to write it, such as:
"...approach THE enunciatee TO answer..."?
I hope it helps
Uirapuru@BR Brazil Local time: 08:10 Native speaker of: Portuguese PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you so much.
Actually, all the answers were pretty good, but I considered yours as the best fitting for the text I had. Specially the part I posted here was really confusing (badly written...) and rephrasing was the best thing to do, since even I couldn't understand the reference of some of the pronouns.
Thanks.
Explanation: I'm sure of the grammar, but I'm not entirely clear what your question is, and I'm not sure what "enunciador" means in your context (see my comment under the Discussion section).
There is no doubt that "ele" is translated as 'he' if it's a human or an animal normally referred to by sex and 'it' if it's inanimate.
The decision to be politically correct and say 'he or she' instead of 'he' alone depends on your client's policy - there is no grammatical obligation to add 'or she'.
The same rule applies for the possessive pronoun seu/sua: if the subject was human or a dog, cat, etc., use 'his' and if inanimate, use 'its'.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 21 hrs (2010-08-07 19:15:18 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I agree that you could also say 'they' and 'their' - but that's a political decision, not a grammatical one. It can also lead to trouble unless you keep the text consistent throughout.
I can't really think of a case in which I would translate "ele" as 'one' - Portuguese has other ways of conveying an impersonal subject, which don't lend themselves to the 'one' construction in English. For example:
- Dizem que ... [no subject specified]
- Considera-se que...
Muriel Vasconcellos United States Local time: 04:10 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 2450
Explanation: Grandao makes a good suggestion, but I would go one step further in order to avoid the pitfall of using sexist language to translate (what you yourself recognized as) a neutral term.
First of all, I wouldn't use "enunciator"/"enunciatee" (that's Portuguenglish). You should translate those terms as "speaker"/"listener" or, if more formal or antiquated language is called for, as "interlocutor"/"member of the audience". However, unless the preceding text clearly indicates that all of the enunciators (speakers) and enunciatees (listeners) are male, the best option is to pluralize both subjects, thereby maintaining the neutral tone:
". . . o enunciador visa aproximar-se de SEU enunciatário para que ELE atenda, por meio da realização de SUA performance . . ."
=
". . . speakerS seek to approach THEIR listeners in such a way that THEY respond, via THEIR performance* . . ."
Since there are two actors, it might even be better to clarify certain parts by writing, for example ". . . via the performance OF THE FORMER . . ."
*". . . realização de SUA performance . . ." is redundant (just enchendo linguiça).
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 days (2010-08-10 21:48:41 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
Sorry about the "Portuguenglish" crack - I was basing that on the fact that I only got 10 hits for this Google search:
"enunciator" "enunciatee" site:.edu
However, I maintain my position on avoiding gender-biased language in translations.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +1
peer agreement (net): +1
