li

English translation: have read

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Portuguese term or phrase:	li
English translation:	have read
Entered by:	jerrie

18:56 May 31, 2002

Portuguese to English translations [Non-PRO]

Portuguese term or phrase: li

Eu li todos os livros da Iyanla Vanzant.

Fab�ola

have read

Explanation:
all the books..

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Note added at 2002-06-01 08:36:15 (GMT)
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I\'ve read all Iyanla Vanzant\'s books.

I did add this note a while ago, but it didn\'t appear!

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Note added at 2002-06-05 08:24:22 (GMT)
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The difference between \'read\' and \'have read\'.

You may use \'read\' when you have a specific context in time to add to it.
I read all Iylana Vanzant\'s books yesterday.
I read all Iylana Vanzant\'s books at University.
etc.

If you just have a statement, full stop, no context of time, it has to be \'have read\'.

I\'ve read all Iylana Vanzant\'s books.

You cannot say (in British English)
I read all Iylana Vanzant\'s books.

Selected response from:

jerrie
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:02

Grading comment

Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +9

have read

jerrie

5 +2

I've read all of Iyanla Vanzant's books

Aida Macedo

4 +2

I have read all the books of Iyanla Vanzant.

Robert INGLEDEW

5 +1

read

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

5 +1

I've read all.....

Antonio Costa (X)

4 +1

I meant to say...

Daniel Marcus

Answers

1 min confidence:

peer agreement (net): +9

have read

jerrie
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:02
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in pair: 8

Grading comment

Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.

7 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

I have read all the books of Iyanla Vanzant.

Explanation:
no need. References are only to confirm the wording.

Your search: "I have read all the books of" Categories | Web Sites | Web Pages | News | Research Documents

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Web Page Matches 1-11 of 11

Introduce myself...ok... - www.ezboard.com
... Anywayz, I really like LOTR too. I have read all the books of the series, including
Silmarillion and the Hobbit. Tolkien's books are soooooooo good. ...
http://pub39.ezboard.com/frohan73264frm7.showMessage?topicID...

Amazon.de: Kundenrezensionen: Marketing Warfare
... Mai 1999 Rezensentin/Rezensent: Girish Nair ([email protected]) aus California,US
I have read all the books of Al Ries & Jack Trout and this must ...
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books-us... p_1_1/

Jesus Loves Me Guestbook
... I have read much of the sight, AND I have read all the books of our much loved
author whom Jesus Loves so much. LORD Jesus, thank you for this ministry. ...
http://www.jesuslovesme.org/newWeb/pages/guestbook/guestbook...

The Forerunner Website : Wise Essays : [NEW] A Chat with Deepak ...
... Deepak Chopra at 1:14pm ET I have read all the books of the major religions several
times, and I believe that if you go beyond the semantics, their origins lie ...
http://www.users.qwest.net/~freehold/abcnew.htm

The Fruits of True Life in God
... (JF, UK, October 1999) I have read all the books of "True Life in God"and
the newspapers and I visited the 3 sessions of your visit to Holland. ...
http://www.tlig.org/fruit7.html
More Results From: www.tlig.org

Robert INGLEDEW
Argentina
Local time: 19:02
Native speaker of:

English,

Spanish
PRO pts in pair: 307

8 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

read

Explanation:
tenho lido= I have read, present perfect
li=read , perfect

Yep~!

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Note added at 2002-05-31 20:04:56 (GMT)
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I read all of Iyanla Vanzant\'s books.

It is just simply not HAVE READ. Please refer to your grammars.

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Note added at 2002-05-31 20:08:06 (GMT)
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Eu leo=I read
[please note Fabiola, the present and perfect are written the same but do not have the same pronunciation]
Eu li= I read
Eu tenho lido= I have read

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Note added at 2002-05-31 20:17:06 (GMT)
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I mean the pronunciation in English is not the same for the present read and the perfect and present perfect read.

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Note added at 2002-05-31 23:38:04 (GMT)
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I cannot believe people\'s recalcitrance. Fine. I taught English for 7 years. I think everyone is just being silly. I am not going to make any more comments EXCEPT:
This could be present perfect, it would be OK English. Only the Portuguese DOESN\'T SAY, I have read. It says: I read. So have a party everyone. If you say, Have you read Shakespeare. It means at some point in the past and continues to be true to the moment of speaking. It\'s past and one doesn\'t know when.
If it\'s I read, it\'s in the past. The way it is taught to non-English speakers is through the following type of dialogue:

Have you read Shakespeare
Yes, I have.
When did you read him?
Oh, I read him in college.

But you can also say: I read Shakespeare and it means that it\'s done and finished.

Now since the Portuguese says Li there is no way it can be translated I have read. I am always humble on Proz and the first to say when I make a mistake or someone else is right. Would that others were so. Plus, of all the people who provided an answer, I am the only native speaker......I try to learn from others but I can see that sentiment is not that of others....

Good luck to you all!!

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Note added at 2002-05-31 23:39:59 (GMT)
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Correction, perhaps, jerrie is a native speaker....

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Note added at 2002-06-01 14:20:55 (GMT)
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Past perfect of experience: You can\'t tell from a single sentence what the context is that would merit \"have read\". Many people learning English have a problem with it. Spanish speakers, Portuguese speakers, French speakers and Italians (especially the latter since they don\'t use the tense often in Italian) The French for example are always translating J\'ai lu as I have read. And re my note: I meant \"provided\" and not have provided. In addition to the use of the perfect/present perfect being difficult, there is also the stylistic decision to write one or other. So when I said \"provided\", I was referring to their provision of answers as a set of complete answers. I could also have written \"have provided\" to emphasize or suggest that they might perhaps provide more answers. Anyway, Í repeat that there is not enough context to decide re present perfect of experience. The immediate sentence containing Li for me is read. You are all welcome to your own understanding(s). As for Daniel Marcus saying there is no specified past time, Li specifies past time and it\'s read. Where did the idea come from that IN Portuguese there has to be an \"o mes pasado\" or \"o ano passado\" for it to be \"I read\" in English? That applies to the use of simple past (perfect) or present perfect IN English. And to apply it as a translation rule makes it \"back syntax\" as in back translation. Well I have enjoyed the discussion and as far as the last answer provided by AC about it being \"have read\" and the rest is BS, I can say, he must not enjoy himself very much. :)

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Native speaker of:

English,

Portuguese
PRO pts in pair: 3273

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Emilia Carneiro

1 hr

-> Obrigada, Emilia do mesmo nome de familia traduzido!

agree

Grasa

4 hrs

disagree

Daniel Marcus: Sorry, Jane I can't agree. This is present perfect for experience, as in 'Have you ever'. Port/Braz learners of Eng have difficulty with this since they use present simple in pt.

4 hrs

-> There is no context to suggest that.

agree

SLavor

9 hrs

neutral

jerrie: I am a native (Brit) speaker.

13 hrs

disagree

Antonio Costa (X): With Jerry. So you are a native speaker! And so what? This is standard English. I'm a Brazilian and can discuss this at the same level where you think you are!

19 hrs

disagree

Aida Macedo: Por favor, Jane, consulte a "English Grammar in Use".

1 day 4 hrs

-> Aida, it's not necessary for there to be'last week", yesterday or some other phrase to use simple past. You can use simple past without qualifying a specific time period.

agree

Ana Pardal: A frase original está no pretérito perfeito simples "eu li...", ou seja, ele leu todos os livros que ela escreveu , ponto inal, acabou. Isso em inglês é transmitodo pelo simple past, "I read..." done and finished! Não consigo perceber a dificuldade!!

1 day 16 hrs

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

I've read all of Iyanla Vanzant's books

Explanation:
or "I have read"

See "English Grammar in Use" by Raymond Murphy (Cambridge University Press), p. 28, about the use of the Present Perfect. Some examples are given, among which:
Have you read "Hamlet"? No, I haven't read any of Shakespeare's plays.

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Note added at 2002-06-01 23:59:02 (GMT)
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Para os falantes de português, o uso do Present Perfect é uma das maiores dificuldades da língua inglesa, já que é um tempo de verbo raramente utilizado em português. Quando nos referimos a algo acontecido no passado, usamos o Pretérito Perfeito Simples (Simple Past) em quase todos os casos, ao contrário do que sucede em inglês, em francês com o Passé Composé, em alemão e mesmo em castelhano. É por isso que nós, portugueses e brasileiros, somos \"especialistas\" quanto às regras de aplicação do Present Perfect em inglês. Claro que as línguas são realidades mutáveis e que tendem para a simplificação, principalmente o inglês. Hoje verifico que muitos anglófonos já nem sequer sabem distinguir o futuro do condicional, o que é terrível para quem traduz.

Aida Macedo
Portugal
Local time: 23:02
Native speaker of:

Portuguese
PRO pts in pair: 30

5 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

I meant to say...

Explanation:
Port/Braz learners of English use the past simple for this concept.

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Note added at 2002-06-01 00:53:21 (GMT)
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Sorry. I\'m tired. I hope you got what I was trying to say. In my peer grade to Jane I put \'present\' instead of \'past\'.

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Note added at 2002-06-01 01:23:30 (GMT)
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I\'ve just re-read Jane\'s answer - in particular, the long note timed at 23.38 GMT - and she says \"Plus, of all the people who provided an answer, I\'m the only one who...blah blah blah...\" Shouldn\'t that read \'Of all the people who HAVE PROVIDED an answer...,\' since there was always the chance that others may contribute and no finished time in the past was specified??? The point is, Jane, that there is no specified finished-past time in the original sentence. Therefore the person is talking about EXPERIENCE. It\'s not a matter of \'still true at the moment of speaking\' (as Jane suggested was the use of the present perfect) - it\'s about having had this experience AT SOME POINT IN ONE\'S LIFE.

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Note added at 2002-06-01 16:29:55 (GMT)
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Jane replied to me above that there\'s no context to suggest it\'s pres.perf for experience. Yes there is - it\'s a full stop; the end of the sentence, i.e. no specified time.

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Note added at 2002-06-05 08:49:49 (GMT)
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Jane, the specified time I was talking about is in English. So if you\'re going to translate a pt sentence without spec time in the past it\'s going to have to be pres perf in the en version. The way I see it, the sentence here could have a \'ja\' in it. This is represented by the pres perf in en. e.g. Eu (ja) assisti a todos os filmes de Charlie Chaplin. Here ja means \'at some point in my life\', therefore present perfect for experience, if you translate it into English. I suspect I still haven\'t convinced you about this - we may just have to agree to disagree - but I hope I have convinced you that the rest of the proz community is not \"recalcitrant\" for having a different opinion to yours.

Daniel Marcus
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:02
PRO pts in pair: 136

5 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

I've read all.....

Explanation:
The rest is pure bulllshit.

Antonio Costa (X)
PRO pts in pair: 78

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