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13:10 Apr 20, 2011
Romanian to English translations [PRO] Education / Pedagogy
Romanian term or phrase:formator
Poate cineva sa imi spuna care este termenul oficial in limba engleza pentru "formator". (Ma refer la acel dascal implicat in formarea adultilor, care nu este profesor, ci formator pe domeniul sau de expertiza. ) Multumesc.
Problema se referă la utilizare. Chiar daca "trainer" suna logic, cuvintele cu utilizarea comună sunt importante în limba engleză.//And the problem also lies in the fact that (UK) English could say "Trainer" but this would only be for emphasis and a particular nuance. In the context given, of a regular teaching assistant position in a language school, such usage would definitely be INCORRECT. USA English is probably different and certainly, the ".com" websites(which are mainly American) do show the usage of "Trainer". However, in a European environment, where many terms, especially regarding language education, are used taken from English, it is generally accepted that the UK version would be used due to connections and associations we share. Unless of course an English translation is being carried out by a non-native speaker who is perhaps unable to grasp the full overtones and implications of using this word. However, as someone who has gone through the language education system in UK and on continental Europe, and has been living in UK for most of my life,I would be careful about using US expressions if the institution being discussed is on continental Europe.
În cazul în care contextul furnizat iniţial de Ioana este cel real, şi anume un formator pe domeniul sau de expertiza, nu e vorba de "teacher" ci de "trainer", pentru că atunci trainingul se face pe domeniul de expertiză (în limba germană) şi nu pe limba germană în sine. Dar asta numai dacă luăm în considerare contextul iniţial. Sper să nu luaţi foarte personal aceste dezbateri de idei (cum de altfel nici eu nu o fac), intenţia mea a fost, este şi va rămîne mereu una constructivă.
P.S There is no such thing as "Romanian English". Yet ;)
Please could you ascertain which type of English this text is intended for. There seems to be some dispute amongst other Answerers with the viewpoint and suggestions of UK English. Thank you.
Unfortunately the comparison you make between "teacher" and "tutor" not have having training is irrelevant. "Teacher" is a term that CAN be applied to somebody without training because it is general as well as being specific and used officially. THE TERM TUTOR DOES ACTUALLY IMPLY THE PERSON HAS BEEN TRAINED ANYWAY.
Also, if you do not agree that UK English is relevant that is fine and I salute you. I am offering the opinion of a UK English speaker because I am English - I do not claim to speak US or AUS English, or even "Romanian" English. The one thing I do claim though, is that, although some native speakers are not always well educated, my "Native Opinion" is relevant because I can give a viewpoint that a non-non native speaker cannot give. // I also do not know what the problem is with accepting that FLA is an extremely common term - although you are welcome to "disagree" with my suggestion if you don't like it.
Din punctul meu de vedere, şi dacă aş fi în locul Ioanei, aş alege oricum o variantă "necontestată" atât de vehement de un "native speaker". Poate că aş alege varianta language tutor, pentru că termenul nu implică o pregătire pedagogică prealabilă, ca în cazul lui "teacher". In altă ordine de idei, cu siguranţă site-ul citat de mine nu este singurul din UK care foloseşte sintagma "language trainer". Şi apoi ce importanţă are dacă site-ul este sau nu din UK? Limba engleză nu se vorbeşte doar în UK... Credeţi că Engleza UK este "mai bună" sau mai corectă? Sau e doar Engleza vorbită în UK, şi atunci nu văd de ce ar trebui luată ca punct de referinţă.
Departe de mine intenţia de a sugera că aş sti mai multă engleză decât dvs. De aceea am şi făcut menţiunea "nu e cazul de faţă" :) Ştiu însă lucruri pe care un nativ nu şi-a bătut capul să le înveţe niciodată, pentru că nu i-au trebuit sau nu l-au interesat. Făcând un doctorat în dialectologia limbii engleze am studiat şi am aflat chestii pe care nu toţi nativii le cunosc. Despre asta era vorba.
If you know more about English than me I congratulate you and also the Romanian Education system for obviously teaching you things that my own country was unable to. However, after 43 years of living in and speaking UK/UK English, I have never met or heard of a "language trainer" and have met/heard of many "FLA"s.
From the same website:
"Our native speaker qualified German language teachers can train you at your office or home at a time to suit you." http://www.languagetrainers.co.uk/german_courses.php
All I am saying is that where this might appear (language trainer), it is incorrect usage and not very common. I apologise if that is a problem - I did not create the English language.
Also, the message was NOT originally sent to you.
I do not need to "think again".
How many websites, written by English people, do they use this term "trainer" on. I am also not implying that all native speakers can master their language correctly. I am talking about my own knowledge of my language and the usage of the English speakers that I have come into contact with throughout my life.
It is also not very helpful to the Asker to prove and push your point when you are obviously basing your opinion on the evidence of one website. Where I live in London there are many foreign language schools and they do not have "trainers", they have "teachers" or "assistants". I have also checked with some English people verbally today, and they all say that "trainers" is an incorrect way to talk about language teachers, even in a foreign language school.
How many websites and how many English speakers have you found that use the term "trainers"?
Este evident cui îi este adresat mesajul tău. Din păcate - sau din fericire - pe mine nu mă impresionează foarte tare calitatea de "native speaker" şi voi explica şi de ce. Nu este cazul de faţă, dar ştiu o grămadă de vorbitori nativi (fie ei din US sau UK) care au mari dificultăţi în ceea ce priveşte propria limbă. Deci "nativitatea" în sine nu mi se pare a fi o expertiză, şi asta e valabil atât pentru engleză cât şi pentru alte limbi. Eu nu mă contrazic de dragul de a ma contrazice, eu argumentez şi exprim păreri pe care le fundamentez, şi în general accept păreri care sunt, la rândul lor, fundamentate. Aşa e fiindcă aşa spun eu că e şi eu ştiu mai bine pentru că sunt "native speaker" nu mi se pare suficient. Eu nu sunt vorbitor nativ de limba engleză, dar ştiu cu sigurantă mult mai multe despre limba engleză decât ştiu mulţi nativi. Verificat.
Iată (de pe acelaşi site):
"German Lessons in London. Learn German. Your trainer will be a qualified native German speaker, and will provide classes and materials appropriate to your needs and requests."
So "trainers" is not used to describe FLAs or (Foreign language assistants/teachers) in the UK."? Think again...
I think it would be helpful if you read the contents of discussion boxes fully, read the contents of referenced websites properly, and took into consideration the help given by native English speakers, before you decide to argue with their comments. I would not dispute with a Romanian over the use of their own native language. // This wesbsite: http://www.languagetrainers.co.uk/ uses the term "language trainers" as a title of the school, this is a play on words and is a commercial company name aimed at attracting sudents because it is an unusual expression. "trainers" is not used to describe FLAs or (Foreign language assistants/teachers) in the UK. The website uses the term "teachers" and not "trainers" to describe the teaching staff it uses. With every respect, you may need to become a little more accustomed to the use of the English language before disputing with the English over the usage of their own language. Regards. Lara.
Yes I understand your point. I think that the reason I disagreed is because I have never heard the term "language trainer" used in UK. I was trying to leave possibility open to be flexible. However, I would be happy to rephrase what I have said as "hardly ever used". The times that it is used is, as in your reference , as a play on words.
Nu, nu aţi spus "is just not very common" ci "you would NOT be called a "Trainer" in the UK." Cu accent pe NOT. Faptul ca "is just not very common " in UK nu justifica "disagree"-ul iniţial. Cu scuzele de rigoare mă intorc la proiectul meu. O zi bună!
As regards your website references. (I speak UK English only), The only UK based site has cleverly entitled the school "Language Trainers". This is a play on words because we do not often use the term "language trainers" - if you look within the pages of this site, you will see that they call the staff, "teachers" - as per my alternative suggestion - and not "trainers" - If you have a clear understanding of English usage, you would have understood this.
I appreciate your references, but as I have said "language trainer" is just not very common and is a term adopted by a few small colleges and has a specific purpose - eg. training in "business" language or training for "exams" etc.
As far as "uşor exces de zel", I can assure you that I was responding to the conventions of my language and was not making any opionion with any sort of overzealous attitude as you seem to think.
Răspunsul meu (ca de altfel şi al Ioanei) a fost dat înainte ca Askerul să furnizeze explicaţii suplimentare, şi este bazat pe contextul oferit de Asker la momentul respectiv, şi anume: "acel dascal implicat in formarea adultilor, care nu este profesor, ci formator pe domeniul sau de expertiza". In ACEST context, consider răspunsul meu ca fiind corect. Mergând mai departe, şi luând în considerare şi explicaţiile ulterioare, susţineţi că "If you teach a language, or any other academic subject, you would NOT be called a "Trainer" in the UK." Nu vă contrazic, dar http://www.languagetrainers.co.uk/ spune altceva. Şi e tot din UK. La fel si http://www.languagetrainersgroup.com/ , http://www.languagetrainers.com/ , www.communicaid.com/about/employment.php, www.jobsearch.in/English-Language-Trainer-jobs, etc etc...
Cât despre intervenţiile dezaprobatoare, odată ce aţi sugerat un alt răspuns - şi nefiind vorba de o greşeală grosolană - îmi par a fi un "uşor exces de zel".
Cum este acest "un pic de exces de zel"? am cerut pentru mai mult context şi Askerul a răspuns. Orice vorbitor UKEnglish ar spune la fel. Nu am nici o vină ca răspunsul dumneavoastră nu se conformează la context şi la utilizare în limba engleză. Ar trebui sunt de acord cu un cuvânt incorect?
"disagree" meu a fost bazat pe convenţiile lingvistice. Eu nu înţeleg cum acest este zelos - Incerc sa fi sincer.
Dacă doriţi ca sunt de acord cu răspunsul dumneavoastră vă rugăm să-mi arate modul în care cuvântul este corect în context.
"Trainers" in UK teach practical skills only - never language or academic subjects. "Training" is for computer skills, nursing, driving, handling cash tills etc. There are a few private colleges that have adopted the term but it is not very common usage of the word in this context - it s used in more specific way, such as a play on words or for "training" in business skills in foreign language etc..
If you teach a language, or any other academic subject, you would NOT be called a "Trainer" in the UK. I would say Foreign Language Assistant or Teacher. In UK English, just because you don't hold a particular qualification, there would not be a problem in calling you a teacher. "Trainer" is only used for vocational or other skills such as how to operate computer packages, or how to care for elderly people. In an academic context "teacher" can be used generally or specifically. However, if you are insecure about using this word, "foreign language assistant" is a very common term in UK.
What is the target readership of your text? And which type of English? eg English, US, Australian etc.
I am teaching German in a foreign language school. However I do not have a university degree in teaching languages or teaching whatsoever. I have a university degree in social sciences. But I am a native speaker of German (German descendents, University studies in Germany etc). So I am teaching based on my skills, not based on a special degree in the field. What would be the proper name for my position? I was not sure I can be a called a teacher. This is why I thought trainer (formator) would be a more proper word. Any ideas are highly appreciated.
And thanks to everybody who took time to answer!
There are many terms available here. Could you specify which area of eduction this is in. The literal translation of "trainer" is only used in certain contexts. You say this is adult education, but is it academic, skills training, vocational, remedial ???
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +7