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preot de mir

English translation: secular priest

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Romanian term or phrase:	preot de mir
English translation:	secular priest
Entered by:	Lavinia Pirlog

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20:07 Mar 11, 2011

Romanian to English translations [PRO]
Religion

Romanian term or phrase: preot de mir

Ca persoana consacrata, prin Sacramentul Hirotoniei, oricare preot de mir (cel obisnuit, de parohie) este investit si indreptatit (imputernicit) sa-si exercite intreita misiune (profesiune, vocatie): pimenica (pastorala, calauzitoare, de "leader-ship"), didactica (culturala, catehetica, omiletica, viziune "profetica", de perspectiva) si sacramentala (harismatica, liturgica, sacrificiala).

Lavinia Pirlog KudoZ activity Questions: 3122 (14 open) (1 without valid answers) (22 closed without grading) Answers: 287
Local time: 14:33

secular priest

Explanation:
De cele mai multe ori preoţii de mir sunt preoţi parohi. Principala diferenţă între preoţii de mir şi preoţii monahi constă în căsătorie.
In the Orthodox Church, the term "secular clergy" refers to married priests and deacons, as opposed to monastic clergy (hieromonks and hierodeacons).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_clergy

Selected response from:

Misu
Romania
Local time: 14:33

Grading comment

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +5

secular priest

Misu

4 +1

(ordained) priest

Anca Nitu

secular clergy

Mihaela Dinu

Discussion entries: 8

Annamaria Amik

@Anca & Lara: Ordained

08:08 Mar 14, 2011

În ortodoxie "ordained priest" ar fi o tautologie, deoarece NU există preoţi care nu sunt hirotoniţi (=ordained). Ordained priest este şi ieromonahul, adica preotul-călugăr, care NU este "preot de mir". Repet, sensul atributului "de mir" nu este hirotonia, nu are de-a face cu mirul cu care se unge şi cu eventualele sensuri "intuite" din acesta. Ba chiar si DEX-ul arată ce inseamnă "mir, de mir" = mirean, adică cel din lume. Cred că orice preot ortodox român vă poate confirma acest lucru :-)

In Orthodoxy, there is no such thing as a "religious order" (as the Benedictines, Franciscans etc. of the Roman Catholics) either: all monastics are part of the same "order". Indeed "secular clergy" is not the accurate translation, as it includes both the priests and deacons "de mir". However, "de mir" simply means that the priest is not a monastic living in a monastery, but lives in the world, most likely has a wife whom he married before he was ordained priest. After ordainment, priests can no longer marry: they can either remain non-monastic celibates or can become monastics. Please note that celibate and monastic are not synonymous terms in Orthodoxy.

Annamaria Amik

Ca să fie şi mai clar :-)

22:55 Mar 13, 2011

Iată clasificarea dintr-o lecţie de religie:
http://www.calauzaortodoxa.ro/credinta/lectia-nr-3-de-religi... Este evident că opusul atributului "de mir" este "călugăr", aşa cum a punctat de la bun început Julia.

Annamaria Amik

Miru (world) vs. miro (oil)

22:51 Mar 13, 2011

Limba română redă cu acelaşi cuvânt două sensuri diferite. Mirul cu care se unge provine din "miro", în timp ce mirul ca şi lume provine din "miru" (comunitate, lume). De aici confuzia posibilă. Reiese din orice lectură ortodoxă în care apare termenul "preoţii de mir" că se referă la preoţii din lume vs. cei din mănăstire, şi atributul nu are nimic de-a face cu mirul folosit în mirungere.

Annamaria Amik

De mir = din lume

22:35 Mar 13, 2011

... as opposed to monastics.
http://dictionarortodox.com/preot-de-mir
Preot de mir înseamnă preot ortodox care slujeşte mirenilor.
Preoţii de mir slujesc în bisericile din oraş, din lume, şi nu în mănăstire.

A fi diacon nu înseamnă a face parte din "secular" clergy - există şi ierodiaconi, adică monahi cu rang de diacon (de altfel, şi diaconii pot sluji anumite părţi din liturghie), aşa cum există şi diaconi de mir, care slujesc în lume. Preoţia este una. În sensul tainei preoţiei, "la fel de preot" este şi preotul de mir (cel din lume, majoritatea căsătoriţi), ca şi ieromonahul, adică preotul-călugăr. De mir înseamnă pur şi simplu "din sau în lume", a nu se confunda cu presupusele înţelesuri derivate din termenul mir sau mirungere. De altfel, cel mai important element al tainei preoţiei nu este "ungerea", ci punerea mâinilor.

Anca Nitu

the term"mir" is relevant

18:58 Mar 13, 2011

El indica faptul ca preotii de mir pot oficia liturghia ceea ce diaconii cuprinsi in termenul " secular clergy " nu au voie
Secular clergy cuprinde toti preotii si personalul clerical care nu sunt calugari. Or si in aceasta categorie sunt mai multe subcategorii

LaraBarnett

United Kingdom

13:02 Mar 12, 2011

Thank you. I did ask before I suggested this but got no reply.

Annamaria Amik

No, it is not relevant

11:49 Mar 12, 2011

In this context, "mir" comes from the Slavonic "miru" and means: world (as in secular). Another form of saying it is "mirean".

LaraBarnett

United Kingdom

21:44 Mar 11, 2011

Is the term "mir" not relevant to the role of this priest?
chrism n (oil used for anointing) mir s.n.
myrrh n (fragrant oil) mir s.n
http://www.wordreference.com/roen/mir

Answers

20 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

secular priest

Misu
Romania
Local time: 14:33
Native speaker of:

Romanian
PRO pts in category: 8

Notes to answerer

Asker: Multumesc.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

MMUK: Cu mare plăcere!

1 hr

-> Mulţumesc!

neutral

LaraBarnett: I do still hold to my idea that the definition of "Secular Clergy" is a priest who does not belong to a religious order, although I am not denying that this may be the best translation possible.

1 hr

-> Lara, in the Christian Orthodoxy there are two kinds of priests: we call them "preoţi de mir" and "preoţi monahi (sau ieromonahi)". "Preoţii de mir" are married and usually assigned to serve in a parish.

agree

Julia Prazsmary: Lara dear, the "mir" here hasn't got anything to do with the oil, it comes from the slavish word "miru", meaning "the world". Also please read the article from wikipedia down to where it comes to orthodox church.

8 hrs

-> Mulţumesc!

agree

Annamaria Amik: Dear Lara, I think it's safe to refrain from disagrees when one doesn't completely understand the source word :-) I totally agree with Julia (Julia: sorry, I only saw your comment after posting in the discussion area :-) ).

15 hrs

-> Mulţumesc, Annamaria!

neutral

Anca Nitu: conform definitiei include si diaconii care nu sunt preoti de mir http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_clergy

1 day22 hrs

agree

Cosmin Băduleţeanu

2 days12 hrs

-> Mulţumesc, Cosmin!

agree

Tradeuro Language Services

7 days

-> Mulţumesc!

24 mins confidence:

secular clergy

Explanation:
In religia crestin ortodoxa exista teoretic doua tipuri de viata:
1. Viata monahala, a calugarilor unde slujesc preoti calugari care sunt denumiti si IEROMONAHI.

2. Viata laica, a oamenilor obisnuiti care sunt numiti si mireni, iar pentru ei slujesc preoti casatoriti, denumiti si PREOTI DE MIR.

In the Orthodox Church, the term "secular clergy" refers to married priests and deacons, as opposed to monastic clergy (hieromonks and hierodeacons). The secular clergy are sometimes referred to as "white clergy", black being the customary color worn by monks. Traditionally, parish priests are expected to be secular clergy rather than being monastics, as the support of a wife is considered necessary for a priest living "in the world".

In the Orthodox Church, the term "secular clergy" refers to married priests and deacons, as opposed to monastic clergy (hieromonks and hierodeacons).

In the Roman Catholic Church, the secular clergy are ministers, such as deacons and priests, who do not belong to a religious order.

Reference: http://wn.com/secular_clergy
Reference: http://dictionarortodox.com/preot-de-mir

Mihaela Dinu
Netherlands
Local time: 13:33
Native speaker of:

Romanian,

English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Multumesc.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

disagree

LaraBarnett: This translation does not show the relevance of "mir" which would be needed for a Western English speaking readership. Also the definition of "Secular Clergy" is a priest who does not belong to a religious order.

1 hr

-> Seculary Clergy in ORTHODOX CHURCH means exactly preot de mir....it is not translated word by word

agree

8 hrs

-> Thank you..

neutral

Anca Nitu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_clergy, la fel ca si mai sus include diaconii care nu sunt preoti de mir

1 day22 hrs

1 day22 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

(ordained) priest

Explanation:
http://www.crestinortodox.ro/credinta/preot-mir-preot-confes...
Ca persoana consacrata, prin Sacramentul Hirotoniei, oricare preot de mir (cel obisnuit, de parohie) este investit si indreptatit (imputernicit) sa-si exercite intreita misiune (profesiune, vocatie): pimenica (pastorala, calauzitoare, de "leader-ship"), didactica (culturala, catehetica, omiletica, viziune "profetica", de perspectiva) si sacramentala (harismatica, liturgica, sacrificiala).

All clergy, including deacons, priests, and bishops, may preach, teach, baptize, witness marriages and conduct funeral liturgies.[7] Only priests and bishops are allowed to administer the sacraments of the Eucharist, Reconciliation (Penance) and Anointing of the Sick.[8][9] Only bishops can administer the sacrament of Holy Orders, which ordains someone into the clergy.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_hierarchy

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days5 hrs (2011-03-14 01:16:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Intrucat numai in biserica ortodoxa si cea anglicana se gasesc preoti casatoriti echivalentul e cam greu de gasit
Cine citeste Catholic Church Hierachy afisat mai sus vede ca termenul de Clergy include : deacons,priests and bishops
Eu una sunt de parere ca e o mica diferenta intre ei

In biserica anglicana preotii sunt " ordained" termen care arata ca sunt abilitati sa indeplineasca functia de preot
Cititi " Eastern Christianity " din linkul de mai jos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Orders
plus pasajul acesta
Orthodoxy has two types of clergy: married (known as "white clergy") and monastic (known as "black clergy").

Pentru a fi mai clar propun " white" priest

Anca Nitu
Local time: 07:33
Native speaker of:

Romanian
PRO pts in category: 12

Notes to answerer

Asker: Multumesc.

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