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старообрядчество

English translation: Some more :-)

12:31 Mar 10, 2002
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary / ������
Russian term or phrase: старообрядчество
Мои драгоценные религиозные гуру... Помогите с переводом этих терминов из старообрядчества (тяжело!!!):

поповское/беспоповское старообрядчество-

беглопоповское -

древЛЕправославное -

поморский, филипповский, федосеевский толк -
Rostislau Golod
Local time: 23:12
English translation:Some more :-)
Explanation:
I've come across the same terms as Elisabeth (I would only write everything with capital - Priestly Old Belief, Priestless Old Belief, etc). Looks like it's true that there is no single term for 'беглопоповское', but I've come across such sentence:

...But this already is a different ecclesiology; it is pure crypto-presbyterianism and on the direct path to the priestlessness of our Old Believers and to the actions of "fugitive" priests and to a situation where a bishop is needed only to ordain new priests and nothing more.

With this you'll be able to make it into the context one way or another... :-)

Also, you might find very useful this site:
http://www.ripnet.org/besieged/oldbelievers.htm

Reg. 'толк', I think it would depend on the context again. I would agree with 'teaching', 'doctrine' (quite a lot of references of this one) and with 'sect' (in this case as a group)

Древлеправославное - Old Orthodox or Old Rite Orthodox

Good luck
:-)



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-10 20:54:19 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

....congregation of Edinovertsy [sect of Old Believers who reached an accommodation with the official Orthodox church in the eighteenth century...
Selected response from:

DTec
Local time: 21:12
Grading comment
Thank you, you've got some nice ideas!!!

Thanks everyone!!!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2Old Belief
William Manthey
4 +2Old Belief indeed, though Old Faith sounds good to me>>
Vladimir Dubisskiy
5посмотрите внизу
ttagir
4 +1Some more :-)
DTec
4priestly Old Believers / priestless Old Believers
Elisabeth Ghysels


  

Answers


47 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Old Belief


Explanation:
Listed in the Oxford Russian Dictionary as a "relig." term.

William Manthey
United States
Local time: 16:12
PRO pts in pair: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Vladimir Dubisskiy
4 hrs
agree  Tatiana Neroni (X)
1 day 2 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
priestly Old Believers / priestless Old Believers


Explanation:
or 'priestly sect' and 'priestless sect' of Old Believers.
беглопоповское: I found to single term; sect of the old believers that accepted priests only under certain circumstances for a limited time.
древЛЕправославное: Old Orthodox.
поморский, филипповский, федосеевский толк:
Teaching of Pomorje, Philippi, Feodosia.
other examples of references:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/2827/nakamura.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/2827/nakamura.html
http://media.karelia.ru/~art/eetext2.htm

Greetings,

Elisabeth



    Reference: http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/christ/east/oldbel.ht...
    Reference: http://www.russian-orthodox-church.org.ru/ne911231.htm
Elisabeth Ghysels
Local time: 22:12
PRO pts in pair: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DTec
7 hrs
disagree  Vladimir Dubisskiy: the names Philippi and Feodosia are wrong.First sect was launched by a monk named Philip, a second-by a person named Feodosy (or Fotij) and they called themselves 'fedoseevsky tolk'.These are sects (within one Pomor'sOld Belief movement) - not teachings
15 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
посмотрите внизу


Explanation:
Старообрядчество (или просто Старый Обряд) переводится как Old Belief.

Что же касается остальных "подвопросов", я бы Вам посоветовал заглянуть на сайты:

(... led to a religious split and emergence of the so-called Old Belief. ...) см. www.russianembassy.org/RUSSIA/religion.htm --- ну очень официальный и продуманный сайт ибо есть сайт Российского посольства в США:-)

У казахов все несколько по иному: www.kazakhembus.com/files/Religious_Groups_in_Kazakhstan.ht... Тцут они прямо используют определение "Old Belief Orthodox"

А вот Афины:
www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/4013/OrthodoxIcon.html где также упоминается и разработана эта тема (" The Greek Orthodox В В В В В Theological Review 15 (1970): 22 ... 21-41. Crummey, Robert O. "Old Belief as Popular Religion: New Approaches ...)

Это американский университет:
ASU - Department of Religious Studies
... Selected Publications: "Priestly Old Belief in Saratov Province: Nikolai ... In Russia's Dissident Old Believers. Eds. Robert ... Orthodox Heretics and Orthodox ...
www.asu.edu/clas/religious_studies/faculty_clay.html

Тоже официальный источник
Meeting of Frontiers: ... Lake Baikal became especially important centers of Old Belief. ...
frontiers.loc.gov/intldl/mtfhtml/mfcolony/colrelfli.html

Славянский сайт: www.slavweb.com/eng/Russia/religion-e2.html

и т.д. и т.п.

Yours,
Tagir.


ttagir
Local time: 23:12
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in TatarTatar
PRO pts in pair: 492
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Old Belief indeed, though Old Faith sounds good to me>>


Explanation:
Old Orhtodox sects (да, я бы употребил "секты" для "толк"- так понятнее для всех и правильно):
помор=coast-dweller (Russian inhabitants of coast of White Sea)-

Pomor(ski) sect(among Russian inhabitants of White Sea coast).

Philip's sect (as far as remember, the founder was a Russian rebel monk named Philip).

Fedoseev's sect (it is not related to the city of Feodosia but goes by the name of a founder).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-10 22:26:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Важное дополнение:
Федосевский толк=течение в беспоповщине (старообрядчество) основанное в кон.17 в. Феодосием Васильевым.... Затем часть верующих переходит в \"поморский толк\" и \"единоверие\".
Филипповский толк=течение в беспоповщине (старообрядчество),выделившееся из поморского толка в 1737 г.... возглавил..инок Филипп (в миру Фотий)..
Так что, будет
\'Feodosy(\'s) sect\' or \'fedoseevsky sect\'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-10 22:30:21 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

выше \"федосеевский толк\" не \"федосевский\", конечно.

Поморский толк (или \"даниловцы\")=умеренное течение в беспоповщине (старообрядчество), начало к-му было положено Данилой Вакулиным и братьями Денисовыми,основавшими на реке Выге (Поморье) в 1695 общину.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-10 22:31:56 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Всё это из чудесного \"Атеистического Словаря\" (раньше бы его не издали,если бы назвали иначе,-скажем, \"Религиозный Словарь\" :-)))

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-11 05:12:37 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Поповщина=одно из направлений в старообрядчестве объединяющее группу \"толков\" и \"согласий\",признающих священство,совершение таинств и треб,а также наличие традиционной для прввославия церковной иерархии.Пкрвоначальной формой поповщины являлось \"беглопоповство\" (могу дать больше инфо.)
\"Беспоповщина\"=направление в старообрядчестве возникшее в конце 17 в.Отвергали церковную иерархию.Из всех таинств сохранили два: крещение и исповедь.Наставники беспоповцев избираются из мирян.Из-за разногласий позднее \"разбились\" на \"спасовский толк\",\"поморский толк\"(\"даниловцы\"),\"филипповский толк\", а в конце 18 вю образовался \"бегунский толк\" (\"страннический толк\").

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-11 06:10:48 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"Беглопоповство\"=одно из направлений старообрядчества.Пополняли \"свои ряды\" за счёт православного духовенства, \"перебегавшего\" в старообрядчество.
Отсюда, я бы предложил - \"deserting clergy\". They were not \"fugitives\" - they deserted from the Orthodox Christian Church joining Old Believers.


    background knowledge
Vladimir Dubisskiy
United States
Local time: 15:12
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 1408

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DTec
2 hrs
  -> спасибо
agree  AYP
15 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Some more :-)


Explanation:
I've come across the same terms as Elisabeth (I would only write everything with capital - Priestly Old Belief, Priestless Old Belief, etc). Looks like it's true that there is no single term for 'беглопоповское', but I've come across such sentence:

...But this already is a different ecclesiology; it is pure crypto-presbyterianism and on the direct path to the priestlessness of our Old Believers and to the actions of "fugitive" priests and to a situation where a bishop is needed only to ordain new priests and nothing more.

With this you'll be able to make it into the context one way or another... :-)

Also, you might find very useful this site:
http://www.ripnet.org/besieged/oldbelievers.htm

Reg. 'толк', I think it would depend on the context again. I would agree with 'teaching', 'doctrine' (quite a lot of references of this one) and with 'sect' (in this case as a group)

Древлеправославное - Old Orthodox or Old Rite Orthodox

Good luck
:-)



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-10 20:54:19 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

....congregation of Edinovertsy [sect of Old Believers who reached an accommodation with the official Orthodox church in the eighteenth century...


    Reference: http://www.ripnet.org/besieged/oldbelievers.htm
DTec
Local time: 21:12
PRO pts in pair: 16
Grading comment
Thank you, you've got some nice ideas!!!

Thanks everyone!!!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  protolmach
6 hrs
  -> Спасибо!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



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