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Продавец фокусов

English translation: peddler of illusions

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase: Продавец фокусов
English translation:peddler of illusions
Entered by: Russ
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06:24 Oct 18, 2002
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
Russian term or phrase: Продавец фокусов
. Продавец фокусов (the title of a detektiv)
Russ
Local time: 21:07
peddler of deceptions
Explanation:
peddler is a good pejorative word
Selected response from:

David Knowles
Local time: 01:07
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +9peddler of deceptions
David Knowles
4 +5to add to David Knowles' suggestion
Irene Chernenko
5 +2The Peddler of Magic
Montefiore
4 +1Trick Seller
Vladimir Dubisskiy
5A comment
Montefiore
4 +1Magic Monger
Montefiore
3 +1the Dream Merchant
Libero_Lang_Lab
4Juggle-mongerxxxVera Fluhr
4 -1In support of babayaga's comments:xxxOleg Pashuk


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Juggle-monger


Explanation:
.

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Note added at 2002-10-18 06:42:51 (GMT)
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Or: Trick-monger

Juggle, Trick ==== фокус

I think Monger is a good word because there exist fish-monger, meal-monger, etc! but at the same timethis word is used not only as \"seller\":
e.g. : air monger; fiction monger, miracle monger, etc

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Note added at 2002-10-19 16:55:08 (GMT)
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Samples from MULTITRAN dictionary (www.multitran.ru):

air-monger === фантазёр
ballad-monger === рифмоплёт
ballad-monger === автор баллад
ballad-monger === автор или продавец баллад
coster monger === уличный торговец (фруктами, овощами, рыбой и т. п.)
fear-monger === паникёр
fiction-monger === выдумщик, враль; сплетник
meal-monger === лабазник ; мучной торговец
miracle-monger === шарлатан ; \"чудотворец\"
news-monger === сплетник
outrage-monger === политикан, спекулирующий на народном негодовании; популист
panic-monger === паникёр
pedigree-monger === составитель родословных; торговец родословными
sensation-monger === распространитель сенсационных слухов
state-monger === политикан
war-monger милитарист; поджигатель войны
witch-monger === человек, общающийся с колдунами или верящий в колдовство, заговоры
word-monger === любитель красивых или высоких слов

To Irene Chernenko:
Marketing strategies concernig books\' titles and especially - crime fictions are not so direct as you tell. This audience likes other titles. In particular, it likes very much \"slang\" titles (see below Tautologist\'s remark to my Answer)


xxxVera Fluhr
Local time: 02:07
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 913

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jack Doughty: The "monger" suffix certainly means "seller", but it only goes with certain things, as in "fishmonger". Could look ridiculous if you combine it with the wrong word.
5 hrs
  -> But it MUST be ridiculous, bizarre. It was my goal, because I think it was also the goal of the author

neutral  Irene Chernenko: "Monger" is not terribly elegant.
11 hrs
  -> Thank you for uour remark. But why do you think he has to be elegant?

neutral  Rusinterp: I think it grates on the ear. It's ridiculous all right, but it might not be enough.
21 hrs
  -> Thank you, all these comments are very educative for me

neutral  Libero_Lang_Lab: monger is to be avoided - and juggle-monger sounds like some sort of rude cockney rhyming slang to me ;-)
1 day10 hrs
  -> But we don't know - maybe the author had just the same intention. Thank you dan for your remark. All this id very educative for me. You know: I am not Russian-English translator, I work in other language pairs
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Trick Seller


Explanation:
Juggle for карточные фокусы - но тут, я думаю, именно tricks (эдак двусмысленно...)

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Note added at 2002-10-19 04:51:40 (GMT)
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Trader of Illusions

Illusion Merchant

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Note added at 2002-10-19 04:59:56 (GMT)
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Trick Vendor

Vendor of Illusions

Trick Retailer

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Note added at 2002-10-19 05:02:20 (GMT)
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Deception Dealer

Vladimir Dubisskiy
United States
Local time: 19:07
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 1408

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Libero_Lang_Lab: trick seller sounds good to me - but i would avoid any of the others - the alliteration can start to sound a little comical..
1 day10 hrs
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +9
peddler of deceptions


Explanation:
peddler is a good pejorative word

David Knowles
Local time: 01:07
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4905
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  zmejka: ух ты!
57 mins
  -> Glad you like it!

agree  Sara Noss: Would con artist fit here, too?
3 hrs
  -> The Con Artist would make a fine title, but it's more down to earth than my high flown one!

agree  Jack Doughty: Detective stories are often more down to earth than high flown. I like "Con Artist".
5 hrs
  -> Jack - you're so prosaic!

agree  marfus
7 hrs
  -> Ta

neutral  Montefiore: I think it
7 hrs
  ->  ... is too high flown - perhaps it is, but it's ...

agree  Zoya ayoz: nice
8 hrs
  -> Thanks - it takes ages to put all these comments in doesn't it!

agree  Irene Chernenko: "Peddler" - whether of deceptions, or magic, or whatever, is VERY elegant.
11 hrs
  -> I'm flattered - I really wanted The Dream Peddler, but it didn't quite fit.

agree  Mark Vaintroub: Как мне кажется, выбор будет зависеть от содержания детектива. Но PEDDLER мне очень нравится!
17 hrs

agree  Rusinterp: peddler of tricks would be good too, I think
21 hrs

agree  Libero_Lang_Lab: the trick/magic peddler
1 day10 hrs
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Magic Monger


Explanation:
or,

Magician





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Note added at 2002-10-18 14:22:12 (GMT)
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Sorry, didn\'t finish a note above to David - it\'s too far fetched, deception, that is, methinks

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 17:07
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 312

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Knowles: You could be right!
9 mins
  -> thank you:)

neutral  Libero_Lang_Lab: i'd avoid monger....
1 day2 hrs
  -> I respect your opinion, as long as neither one of us knows what the book is about
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
The Peddler of Magic


Explanation:
Or,

The Peddler of Magic Tricks

or,

Magic for Sale









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Note added at 2002-10-19 04:39:28 (GMT)
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I just want to say something about some of my compatriots\' common trait - a proclivity for the idealization/embellishement of reality. I am guilty of it myself. The magician was often called the \'illusionist\" in Russian. Make no mistake: this word is not used in English. And we haven\'t read the book. If someone sells something, even the best of idealists can\'t think that it\'s a beautiful thing to do. Yet, I see in so many translations provided here an attempt to embellish and make what it is not the original title of the book. Maybe I am wrong, then I am always ready to admit that. Just prove it to me.

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Note added at 2002-10-20 03:48:54 (GMT)
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I want to clarify what I meant: Irene took it as if I were saying that selling was a bad thing. For crying out loud - that\'s exactly what I was trying to prevent - either a value judgment put on selling, or a value judgment used when translating something that doesn\'t sound \"poetic\" enough, like selling, and attempts to embellish it. That\'s all. After all, the original text does speak of selling. Why make it into something it is not?

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Note added at 2002-10-20 03:55:09 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I wonder why we have to go BEYOND what the original says. and I think it\'s a matter of approach. I am one for the loyalty to the original text. Others may vote for an approach that makes a translator into another author. After all, Pasternak did that. We are all different, and everything has its place. I am just for staying close to the original text. One can be creative while staying loyal to the text. It\'s possible.

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 17:07
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 312

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Irene Chernenko: I agree with your translation suggestions but not your comment. "Фокус" is a trick: something that is not what it seems, and selling doesnt't have to be bad - why do you say it is? There are various ways of saying "one who sells", and "tricks" or "magic".
19 hrs
  -> I am not at all saying that selling is bad; you put the value judgement on it:) Al I said was let's not idealize anything - maybe that's what you think is bad:) long conversation...

agree  Libero_Lang_Lab
1 day2 hrs
  -> thanks, Dan
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
In support of babayaga's comments:


Explanation:
"Con artist" is a very good title for a detective story, I think...

xxxOleg Pashuk
PRO pts in pair: 619

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Libero_Lang_Lab: a con artist is a good title, but it is not the title of this book methinks
1 day2 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
to add to David Knowles' suggestion


Explanation:
Peddler of Illusions

David's suggestion and comments put me in mind of the above. When one thinks about it, the title does not really mean a trickster or con artist - he SELLS magic or tricks, meaning he offers magic to people for a price, not that he double-crosses them.

"Deceptions" may be too negative if he does not deceive; he may simply offer hope or beauty to the desperate. It may be illusory, but it is magic.

I know that this question probably does not warrant such deep analysis. But I have a real soft spot for good fiction, and I think the authors are not arbitrary in their choice of title.

I vote for David Knowles' suggestion with "Peddler of Illusions" in place of "deceptions".


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Note added at 2002-10-18 19:36:35 (GMT)
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Or another one:
Purveyor of Illusions


To Vera:
Re: why does it (the title) have to be elegant?
To sell the book. A catchy, elegant-sounding title will sell, just as a good book cover will.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-10-18 20:29:58 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or another one:
Purveyor of Illusions


To Vera:
Re: why does it (the title) have to be elegant?
To sell the book. A catchy, elegant-sounding title will sell, just as a good book cover will.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-10-18 20:45:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or another one:
Purveyor of Illusions


To Vera:
Re: why does it (the title) have to be elegant?
To sell the book. A catchy, elegant-sounding title will sell, just as a good book cover will.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-10-20 06:29:54 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To Montefiore:
In your comments against embellishing a text being translated and value judgments being placed thereof you wrote:
\"If someone sells something, even the best of idealists can\'t think that it\'s a beautiful thing to do.\"
I would consider that a value judgment.
But I see nothing wrong with it. either.
Literary texts and their titles have more nuances than the average technical or scientific text. In this forum, we offer suggestions - from the mundane to the poetic - to give the Asker a choice. We do not INSIST that the Asker choose our particular suggestion, but we ca

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-10-20 06:31:03 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To Montefiore:
In your comments against embellishing a text being translated and value judgments being placed thereof you wrote:
\"If someone sells something, even the best of idealists can\'t think that it\'s a beautiful thing to do.\"
I would consider that a value judgment.
But I see nothing wrong with it. either.
Literary texts and their titles have more nuances than the average technical or scientific text. In this forum, we offer suggestions - from the mundane to the poetic - to give the Asker a choice. We do not INSIST that the Asker choose our particular suggestion, but we can argue that our suggestion is not linguistically incorrect.

Irene Chernenko
Russian Federation
Local time: 03:07
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 259

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Emil Tubinshlak: I like 'peddler of illusions'
4 hrs
  -> Thank you!

agree  Rusinterp: Purveyor may be too much. I like peddler of illusions, too, but it's really hard to tell without knowing what the book is about
9 hrs
  -> I agree, of course. Nuance is everything.

neutral  Montefiore: We haven't really read the book, have we?
9 hrs
  -> No, but are you saying these are mistranslations? That "продавцы" are not peddlers or purveyors, and "фокусы" are not illusions?

agree  Libero_Lang_Lab: purveyor - could be just the job
21 hrs
  -> Thanks - interesting how differently people react to the same words - it's living thing, right?

agree  David Knowles: We are having fun here! Maybe my original idea of Dream Peddler words, since the dreams must be false, and hence illusions
22 hrs
  -> Yes, this is the kind of debate I really love! With people who have a feel for the language, of course.

agree  Yuri Geifman: I like several of the proposed variations, but mostly I enjoyed reading the postings, especially this one :-)
33 days
  -> It was fun, wasn't it?
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1 day11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the Dream Merchant


Explanation:
Further to David's comment - dreams might be the word. Peddler of Dreams would be good in this case, as, I think, would this alternative...

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Note added at 2002-10-19 18:06:57 (GMT)
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or The Dreamseller - one word

Libero_Lang_Lab
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:07
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1214

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Irene Chernenko: and moving right along - perhaps Dreamweaver?
1 hr

neutral  Montefiore: this is not what the title says, sorry, although I am always the one going for the beyond:)
9 hrs
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1 day21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
A comment


Explanation:
I think it's Irene who said whether I thought that продавцы were not peddlers or purveyors, and фокусы were not illusions. I never said such a thing. Yes, ultimately tricks are illusions, and sellers are peddlers. But that's our interpretation, and not quite the direct rendition of a text at hand. Especially the illusion thing. let's say peddlers is a subject to variations. However, illusions are the outcome of the magic tricks, but not the magic tricks themselves. That was my point. That's all. It's not our book, it's the author's.

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 17:07
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 312
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