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Битва за Сталинград

English translation: The Battle for Stalingrad

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:Битва за Сталинград
English translation:The Battle for Stalingrad
Entered by: Yelena.

13:48 Oct 18, 2002
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
Russian term or phrase: Битва за Сталинград
Не сталинградская битва, а именно Битва за Сталинград

"For" или "Of"
Russian Express
Canada
Local time: 10:39
The Battle for Stalingrad
Explanation:
The Battle of Stalingrad (August 1942 - February 1943) was the decisive World War II Soviet victory that stopped the German southern advance and turned the tide of the war...

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Note added at 2002-10-18 14:08:55 (GMT)
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Я дала Вам как раз ссылку, где на одном и том же авторитетном сайте (ВВС) употребляются оба этих предлога. Видимо, оба варианта употребимы...

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Note added at 2002-10-18 14:18:41 (GMT)
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Думаю, \"сталинградская битва\" лучше переводить \"The Battle of Stalingrad\", а \"Битву за Сталинград\" - The Battle for Stalingrad.

В английской истории есть много battles OF (battle of Britain, Battle of Trafalgar). Чаще всего они указывают на место сражения. А в русском варианте подразумевается именно битва ЗА Сталинград...
Selected response from:

Yelena.
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:39
Grading comment
Thank you everyone! The winner is Yelena. She was first and helpfull.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +13The Battle for Stalingrad
Yelena.
5 +9for
Vladimir Dubisskiy
5 +3not for grading
David Knowles
4 +1The Battle of Stalingrad
Oleg Pashuk (X)


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +13
The Battle for Stalingrad


Explanation:
The Battle of Stalingrad (August 1942 - February 1943) was the decisive World War II Soviet victory that stopped the German southern advance and turned the tide of the war...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-10-18 14:08:55 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Я дала Вам как раз ссылку, где на одном и том же авторитетном сайте (ВВС) употребляются оба этих предлога. Видимо, оба варианта употребимы...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-10-18 14:18:41 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Думаю, \"сталинградская битва\" лучше переводить \"The Battle of Stalingrad\", а \"Битву за Сталинград\" - The Battle for Stalingrad.

В английской истории есть много battles OF (battle of Britain, Battle of Trafalgar). Чаще всего они указывают на место сражения. А в русском варианте подразумевается именно битва ЗА Сталинград...


    Reference: http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/classroom/gcse/staling.ht...
    news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/ newsid_1740000/1740305.stm
Yelena.
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:39
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 342
Grading comment
Thank you everyone! The winner is Yelena. She was first and helpfull.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  marfus
12 mins
agree  David Knowles: Both refs show confusion (as above). So either will do.
16 mins
agree  Yuri Dubrov
29 mins
agree  zmejka: 100%
48 mins
  -> cпасибо всем
agree  diana bb
1 hr
agree  Olga Demiryurek
2 hrs
agree  Irene Chernenko
4 hrs
  -> thank you all!
agree  Alexandre Khalimov
5 hrs
agree  Clive Wilshin: Yes, both are possible, 'of' more common. Reading Grossman's 'Life & Fate' about this battle (in Russian) was my proudest achievement at university. :)
7 hrs
agree  Aleksey Chernobay
15 hrs
agree  Michael Tovbin
23 hrs
agree  Libero_Lang_Lab
1 day 2 hrs
agree  Alexandra Tussing
1 day 16 hrs
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +9
for


Explanation:
from the combinatory dictionary of english (highly rec.)

battle (n) - against, among, between, FOR, over, with.

do not bother you with examples followed.
It's definitely 'for'.

Vladimir Dubisskiy
United States
Local time: 09:39
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 1408

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  marfus
4 mins
agree  diana bb: The dictionary is excellent, isn't it?
1 hr
  -> AWESOME
agree  Irina Ivanova (X)
1 hr
agree  Olga Demiryurek
2 hrs
agree  Yuri Dubrov
2 hrs
agree  Alexandre Khalimov
5 hrs
agree  Natalia Olshanskaya Robinson
14 hrs
agree  Libero_Lang_Lab
1 day 2 hrs
agree  Alexandra Tussing
1 day 16 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
The Battle of Stalingrad


Explanation:
You will find "Battle of ..." in any history book. It is the most accepted term when the battle of historical significance is described.

"for" has somewhat different tone...

Oleg Pashuk (X)
PRO pts in pair: 619

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  diana bb: The Battle OF Stalingrad was a battle FOR Stalingrad. How about that?
35 mins
  -> "The Battle of Stalingrad (August 1942 - February 1943) was the decisive World War II Soviet victory that" - see Yelena's quotation
neutral  Yelena.: Согласна с Дианой
1 hr
  -> Your quote - see above, and in history books
agree  GaryG: "For" gives me no heartburn, but every battle at a location is "for" that location. Off the top of my head, I think most battles are called "Battle of".
11 hrs
  -> thank you
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
not for grading


Explanation:
There is a clear difference in meaning between "of" and "for".

The Battle of Waterloo took place at Waterloo. It was not necessarily to defend Waterloo.

The Battle for Stalingrad was intended to defend Stalingrad. It did not necessarily take place at Stalingrad.

Usually, these two meanings coincide, so there is confusion. If there is no particular reason for preference, "of" sounds more natural. The second meaning is more naturally rendered as "The Battle for control of Stalingrad".

In this case, as the quotes show, there is confusion, but the title seems to have "for" (almost certainly because it follows the Russian), even though the explanation has "of".

It's a bit like The Brothers Karamazov - it's an unnatural title in English, but it's stuck!

So, to come off the fence, it's "for"!

David Knowles
Local time: 15:39
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 5172

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alexandre Khalimov
1 hr
agree  Oleg Pashuk (X): of
2 hrs
agree  Irene Chernenko
5 hrs
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