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Юродивые

English translation: God's fools

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:Юродивые
English translation:God's fools
Entered by: Valery Kaminski
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09:26 Oct 29, 2006
Russian to English translations [PRO]
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Russian term or phrase: Юродивые
From an interview discussing "Outsiders" and their art. Dictionary definitions don't seem to work very well for this one.

Это внутренняя энергия, которая выплескивается на холст, на дерево.

- Эти выплески - выплески безумия?

- Безумные - самые свободные люди.

- Юродивые?

- Среди них тоже есть безумцы. Но юродство привязано к религии, а у каждого из аутсайдеров своя религия.
demerchd
Local time: 01:43
God's fools
Explanation:
The context suggests the synonin here is also "блаженный".
God's fool can be used for both.

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Note added at 4 час (2006-10-29 13:57:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes. In old times in Russia such people were considered to be "touched by God" and treated with some respect - Vasiliy Blajenniy, for example
Selected response from:

Valery Kaminski
Belarus
Local time: 09:43
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +4fools in Christ/Holy foolsBlithe
3 +3God's fools
Valery Kaminski
3 +2fools for Christ's sake
a05
3 +1zealots
Henry Schroeder
4For what it's worth...xxxIreneN
3Possessed
Vladimir Dubisskiy
5 -2meek/poor in spiritTevah_Trans
3 -1whacky
Smantha


  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
zealots


Explanation:
I would say this is very close to zealot, or at least that would be a nice way of translating it, since zealotry was also originally connected with religion.

ЮРОДИВЫЙ и (обл.) ЮРОДИВЫЙ, юродивая, юродивое.

1. Глуповатый, чудаковатый, безумный. У каждого свой сказ про юродивого помещика. Некрасов.

2. в знач. сущ. юродивый, юродивого, м. Христианский аскет-безумец или принявший вид безумца и обладающий, по мнению верующих, даром прорицания (церк., религ.). Христа ради или во Христе юродивый. Молись за меня богу, юродивый! Пушкин.

ЮРОДСТВО, юродства, ср.

1. только ед. Намеренное старание казаться юродивым, глупым, безумным.

2. Бессмысленный, безумный, глупый поступок, какой мог бы совершить только юродивый человек. Бросьте ваши юродства! Говорите без юродства и не начинайте оскорблением домашних ваших. Достоевский.

Henry Schroeder
United States
Local time: 02:43
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 39
Notes to answerer
Asker: From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary: ZEALOT n. 1. a member of a fanatical sect arising in Judea during the first century A.D. and militantly opposing the Roman domination of Palestine 2: a zealous person; esp: a fanatical partisan ZEALOTRY n. excess of zeal: fanatical devotion.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dorene Cornwell: This would play best to English-speaking readers not familiar with the Russian tradition of "holy fools." I could think of ways to use this and still keep the subsequent references to religion.
13 hrs
  -> Thanks, Dorene, yes, I must confess I thought this to be one of my better ideas, especially considering the context. A literal rendering with something like "holy fools" would made absolutely no sense in a discussion about craziness and free people.

disagree  Sophia Hundt: This seems really wrong. Definitely not what it is.To me, "yurodiviy" suggests meekness and humbleness, while zealot suggests agression and religious terrorism.
20 hrs
  -> yes, but it also suggests craziness - first and foremost in this context where they are talking about lunacy, not meekness and humbleness. You can't juxtapose "insane" (безумный) with "meekness", it wouldn't make any sense. See dialogue in question.

agree  Mikhail Kropotov
1 day1 hr
  -> It's more on the creative end, but I thought it could work. Thanks for the support, though thanks even more for your assistance with my own questions!!!
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
fools for Christ's sake


Explanation:
1 Corinthians 4:10 (KJV)
We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.

The Russian Orthodox Church believes these words of Apostle Paul are the basis of yurodivyy's' mission.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 26 mins (2006-10-29 09:52:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Other translations of the same verse from the Gospels

fools for Christ
fools because of Christ
Messiah's misfits
fools on account of Christ and for His sake
Our dedication to Christ makes us look like fools
Because of Christ we are thought of as fools
We are thought of as fools because of Christ




    Reference: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%...
    Reference: http://www.sufism.spb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php/?p=4001
a05
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Natalie: "God's fool"
29 mins
  -> thank you

agree  Anneta Vysotskaya: Fools for God's sake (I would not use "for Christ" in this context)
11 hrs
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57 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
whacky


Explanation:
.

Smantha
Israel
Local time: 09:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in HebrewHebrew
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Sophia Hundt: not the same, not the right shade of meaning.
19 hrs
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43 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
God's fools


Explanation:
The context suggests the synonin here is also "блаженный".
God's fool can be used for both.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 час (2006-10-29 13:57:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes. In old times in Russia such people were considered to be "touched by God" and treated with some respect - Vasiliy Blajenniy, for example

Valery Kaminski
Belarus
Local time: 09:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 80
Notes to answerer
Asker: as in "touched by God"?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Natalie: Я как раз писала это под ответом a05, а тут и ваш ответ появился
2 mins
  -> Thank you!

neutral  Tevah_Trans: blazhennyi is not the same meaning, I don't believe, but I think they go together.
7 hrs
  -> In certain contexts they do go really close together.

agree  Evgenia mussuri: Blazhennyi would work fine here. I work with mentally challenged artists, most of them are Blissful.
8 hrs
  -> Thank you!

agree  Anneta Vysotskaya: Fools for God's sake - another option (I would not use "for Christ" in this context)
11 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -2
meek/poor in spirit


Explanation:
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3); Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. ...
Catholic encyclopedia - English translation = "блаженны юродивые"

"Meek" is an equivalent I believe of the word as it stands in your context.

Tevah_Trans
Local time: 02:43
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 56

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Blithe: the Russian text says "блаженны нищие духом" и "блаженны кроткие", but both are not the same as юродивые
21 mins
  -> good point

disagree  Evgenia mussuri: I do not think meek would work here, it implies some connotations that are not necessarily true to the outsiders.
25 mins
  -> maybe... well i tried

disagree  Sophia Hundt: more of a theological notion,while the Russian actually means "retarded", doesn't it? I.e., holy fool.
12 hrs
  -> it clearly says in the source text that "yurodstvo privyazano k religii"
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
fools in Christ/Holy fools


Explanation:
It knows also strange and unwonted paths to sanctification: that, for instance, of the 'fools in Christ', committing extravagant acts that their spiritual ...
www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/lossky_intro.aspx

The Holy fools, or fools in Christ, were itinerant ascetics who enjoyed great popularity among the ordinary people of Russia, many of them being revered as saints.
www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/6422/Page2.html

Before the nineteenth century Russian jurodivye (or fools in Christ) were described mostly in hagiographic materials and in travelogues of foreign visitors ...
aatseel.org/program/aatseel/2002/abstracts/Kobets.html

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Note added at 8 hrs (2006-10-29 17:54:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the last link refers to an interesting article:

IURODSTVO
http://www.slavdom.com/index.php?id=35

Blithe
Local time: 02:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 3

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anton Agafonov
1 hr
  -> thank you!

agree  Sophia Hundt: I would say holy fools, but fools in christ may seem misleading and confusing, I think.
12 hrs
  -> thank you

agree  Anastasia Novoselova: Holy fools (e.g., http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jim_forest/fools.ht... IMHO, the reference to Chist makes it less of a derrogatory expression, which it is in Russian.
16 hrs
  -> thank you

agree  Alexander Demyanov: Holy
22 hrs
  -> thank you
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
For what it's worth...


Explanation:
Idiot is used in English versions of both the poem and the libretto

BORIS GODUNOV

A Drama in Verse

By ALEXANDER PUSHKIN

Rendered into English verse by Alfred Hayes
Boyars, The People, Inspectors, Officers, Attendants, Guests,
a Boy in attendance on Prince Shuisky, a Catholic Priest, a
Polish Noble, a Poet, *****an Idiot*****, a Beggar, Gentlemen, Peasants,
Guards, Russian, Polish, and German Soldiers, a Russian
Prisoner of War, Boys, an old Woman, Ladies, Serving-women

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number...

Valery Gergiev, 1869 version

Part Four opens with a return of the Russian People Motif, and it has ***the requisite Idiot**** describing what has happened and what will be, if you will, while he implores the Tsar to kill the urchins who torment the Idiot, just like he killed the tsarevich. Ah, what Russian tragedy is complete without the ***Holy Fool***?


xxxIreneN
United States
Local time: 01:43
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 21
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Possessed


Explanation:
I believe here (discussing art) the Russian Юродивые is used more like "одержимость, одержимые" - people possessed \ obsessed with\by some ideas.

Vladimir Dubisskiy
United States
Local time: 01:43
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in category: 43
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