English translation: focus on the values and ultimate choice of direction
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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:
посвятить теме магистральному выбору пути
English translation:
focus on the values and ultimate choice of direction
Russian to English translations [PRO] Bus/Financial - Government / Politics / choices facing the country
Russian term or phrase:посвятить теме магистральному выбору пути
This is a discussion of challenges facing Russia, and this is the third of three under consideration. The elections have been discussed briefly (earlier), and I can't tell whether выбор refers to the elections, or to the choice of direction that the nation chooses more generally. Also, I'm having a hard time making the leap from the BAM to "магистральному ... пути."
Третий блок мы решили посвятить теме ценности, магистральному выбору пути, стратегии развития страны, самоопределения страны.
My draft:
We decided to dedicate the third section to the theme of values, our main choice of direction, our strategy for developing the country, the country's self-determination.
Explanation: The sentence
"Третий блок мы решили посвятить теме ценности, магистральному выбору пути, стратегии развития страны, самоопределения страны"
exemplifies a relatively rare variety of lofty style ("высокий штиль" or "высокопарный слог" in Russian, used ironically).
Like any kind of bombastic rhetoric, it is intended to impress the reader or listener while disguising the triviality of meaning.
The desired effect is achieved here by making the sentence difficult to construe syntactically (too many commas instead of conjunctions) rather than by overloading it with pompous words (a more common type of stilted speech).
The sentence actually means the following:
"Третий блок мы решили посвятить теме ценности пути [= стратегии развития страны] и магистральному выбору пути, то есть стратегии развития страны, и ценности самоопределения страны"
Here are a number of equally good translations:
- "In the third section, we decided to focus on the value and ultimate choice of direction, ...strategy,... self-determination."
- "... focus on the value and choice of ultimate direction, ...strategy,... self-determination."
- "... focus on the value and choice of a long-term course, ...strategy,... self-determination."
The role of "теме" in
"...посвятить теме ценности, магистральному выбору пути"
is made clear by rephrasing this passage as
"...посвятить теме ценности пути [= стратегии here since these words are in apposition, see below] и магистральному выбору пути"
which conveys the same meaning.
However, the word "теме" can safely be omitted as an element of bureaucratic style rather than a meaningful one, as "вопросы" in
"ответственный за вопросы обороны, безопасности, внутренних дел" http://nareferate.ru/147-Upravlenie_vnutrennimi_delami.html
Taking out "теме" (or its English equivalent) makes the whole construction even easier to understand.
Examples where the meaning of "ultimate" or "long-term" is similar to "магистральный" in the present context:
- "The ultimate choice of direction will be heavily influenced by the region's major economic powers..."
from "New regional trading arrangements in the Asia Pacific?" by Robert Scollay & John Gilbert (2001), page 18, accessible via Google Books
- "The ultimate direction of societal and economic change is necessarily the result of the forces of supply and demand." http://www.bizforum.org/whitepapers/mistry.htm
- "On the other hand, the industry will have to be set firmly on a long-term course of development..."
from "New Scientist" Nov 5, 1964, page 341, accessible via Google Books
Notes:
(1) "ultimate" = both "most significant" and "leading to the desired ultimate objective" (in "ultimate choice/direction")
works fine both ways
(2) the construction "посвятить [раздел = section] A B" or "[раздел] посвящается B" is a common Russian equivalent to "section A focuses on B" having no connotation of the affection associated with "dedicate," which would seem misplaced in this context
(3) "ценности" is the genitive of "ценность"; i.e., it should be translated as "value" rather than "values"
Finally, note that the nested appositions in
"ценности,... выбору пути, стратегии..., самоопределения" [страны]
with
"пути" in apposition to "стратегии" ("магистральному выбору пути, стратегии")
"ценности пути [= стратегии развития страны]" in apposition to "ценности самоопределения"
"теме ценности пути [= стратегии развития страны]" in series with "магистральному выбору пути"
serve brilliantly to obscure intellectual triviality.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 час (2011-06-30 18:54:58 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Just to be ultimately(!) clear:
"fine both ways" above means that both "ultimate choice of direction" and "choice of ultimate direction" are fine
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 час (2011-06-30 20:29:29 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Understanding the context + finding a couple of English equivalents takes about a minute.
Googling up some examples amounts to a few minutes more.
The most time-consuming part is writing it all down.
But even that much is not quite a lot.
If you have time, please look here http://www.proz.com/kudoz/4412249
to see what "a lot of research" can be undertaken to demonstrate the advantage of a well-reasoned answer over superficial guesswork.
That one took me almost 2 hours, but I learned something for myself, too, in the process
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 дн22 час (2011-07-02 12:03:55 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
1. Here "ценность" as the nominative of "ценности" should be interpreted as
significance
usefulness
importance
etc
in the context of a general discussion of ideas (which looks a bit like demagoguery here) rather than philosophy or economics
In particular,
- ценности пути/стратегии (genitive of ценность пути/стратегии) ~ importance of direction
- ценности самоопределения (genitive of ценность самоопределения) ~ significance of self-determination
These words can be substituted for 'value' in the suggested translation
2. "The theme" in "The theme of value" should be interpreted as "the subject" on which the discussion is to be focused
It can be dropped without losing a single bit of information (see original explanation)
3. If "ценности" was a plural, then the context would read "теме ценностей"
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 дн22 час (2011-07-02 12:07:27 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Andrei. Your insights are helpful and interesting. I wonder whether other native speakers of Russian agree with their general tenor. The only problem is that I didn't have time to read your very long answer thoroughly until after my deadline was passed and I had handed in the job! But that's life in the translation profession. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
магистральный трубопровод is the most important pipeline. Sometimes (though rather rarely) this adjective is used with other nouns as well - магистральный путь развития, магистральный путь формирования, etc. Ыtill, the author, it seems, put the adjective before the wrong noun here. It should sound like 'выбор магистрального пути' instead.
Doesn't this word have a more magnificent connotation just "main" or "arterial"? (For what it's worth ("magistral" in English means: 1. of, relating to, or characteristic of a master ...
3. fortifications determining the location of other fortifications: the magistral line
— n
4. a fortification in a determining position
[from Latin magistrālis concerning a master, from magister master]
the topic of ... the choice of a main direction (See explanation of shift from the literal)
Explanation: Of course there are five times as many words in the original as needed, and that's part of what makes it a tangle for translation. I would smooth it out a bit by allowing "main" to apply to what it is being chosen, rather than to the choice (выбор; if it were "elections," that would be plural) itself; but, then be more literal in keeping ценность singular. Something like this:
"We decided to devote the third section to the topic of a guiding value - the choice of a main direction, development strategy, and way of self-determination for the country."
Well maybe "the topic of values" would still be OK. But, that's not what you asked about, anyway.
Rachel Douglas United States Local time: 07:59 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 150
19 mins confidence:
long-haul roadmap
Explanation: I was going to say strategic road-map but you already have it in the next phrase.
George Pavlov Canada Local time: 07:59 Native speaker of: Russian PRO pts in category: 4
Explanation: The sentence
"Третий блок мы решили посвятить теме ценности, магистральному выбору пути, стратегии развития страны, самоопределения страны"
exemplifies a relatively rare variety of lofty style ("высокий штиль" or "высокопарный слог" in Russian, used ironically).
Like any kind of bombastic rhetoric, it is intended to impress the reader or listener while disguising the triviality of meaning.
The desired effect is achieved here by making the sentence difficult to construe syntactically (too many commas instead of conjunctions) rather than by overloading it with pompous words (a more common type of stilted speech).
The sentence actually means the following:
"Третий блок мы решили посвятить теме ценности пути [= стратегии развития страны] и магистральному выбору пути, то есть стратегии развития страны, и ценности самоопределения страны"
Here are a number of equally good translations:
- "In the third section, we decided to focus on the value and ultimate choice of direction, ...strategy,... self-determination."
- "... focus on the value and choice of ultimate direction, ...strategy,... self-determination."
- "... focus on the value and choice of a long-term course, ...strategy,... self-determination."
The role of "теме" in
"...посвятить теме ценности, магистральному выбору пути"
is made clear by rephrasing this passage as
"...посвятить теме ценности пути [= стратегии here since these words are in apposition, see below] и магистральному выбору пути"
which conveys the same meaning.
However, the word "теме" can safely be omitted as an element of bureaucratic style rather than a meaningful one, as "вопросы" in
"ответственный за вопросы обороны, безопасности, внутренних дел" http://nareferate.ru/147-Upravlenie_vnutrennimi_delami.html
Taking out "теме" (or its English equivalent) makes the whole construction even easier to understand.
Examples where the meaning of "ultimate" or "long-term" is similar to "магистральный" in the present context:
- "The ultimate choice of direction will be heavily influenced by the region's major economic powers..."
from "New regional trading arrangements in the Asia Pacific?" by Robert Scollay & John Gilbert (2001), page 18, accessible via Google Books
- "The ultimate direction of societal and economic change is necessarily the result of the forces of supply and demand." http://www.bizforum.org/whitepapers/mistry.htm
- "On the other hand, the industry will have to be set firmly on a long-term course of development..."
from "New Scientist" Nov 5, 1964, page 341, accessible via Google Books
Notes:
(1) "ultimate" = both "most significant" and "leading to the desired ultimate objective" (in "ultimate choice/direction")
works fine both ways
(2) the construction "посвятить [раздел = section] A B" or "[раздел] посвящается B" is a common Russian equivalent to "section A focuses on B" having no connotation of the affection associated with "dedicate," which would seem misplaced in this context
(3) "ценности" is the genitive of "ценность"; i.e., it should be translated as "value" rather than "values"
Finally, note that the nested appositions in
"ценности,... выбору пути, стратегии..., самоопределения" [страны]
with
"пути" in apposition to "стратегии" ("магистральному выбору пути, стратегии")
"ценности пути [= стратегии развития страны]" in apposition to "ценности самоопределения"
"теме ценности пути [= стратегии развития страны]" in series with "магистральному выбору пути"
serve brilliantly to obscure intellectual triviality.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 час (2011-06-30 18:54:58 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Just to be ultimately(!) clear:
"fine both ways" above means that both "ultimate choice of direction" and "choice of ultimate direction" are fine
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 час (2011-06-30 20:29:29 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Understanding the context + finding a couple of English equivalents takes about a minute.
Googling up some examples amounts to a few minutes more.
The most time-consuming part is writing it all down.
But even that much is not quite a lot.
If you have time, please look here http://www.proz.com/kudoz/4412249
to see what "a lot of research" can be undertaken to demonstrate the advantage of a well-reasoned answer over superficial guesswork.
That one took me almost 2 hours, but I learned something for myself, too, in the process
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 дн22 час (2011-07-02 12:03:55 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
1. Here "ценность" as the nominative of "ценности" should be interpreted as
significance
usefulness
importance
etc
in the context of a general discussion of ideas (which looks a bit like demagoguery here) rather than philosophy or economics
In particular,
- ценности пути/стратегии (genitive of ценность пути/стратегии) ~ importance of direction
- ценности самоопределения (genitive of ценность самоопределения) ~ significance of self-determination
These words can be substituted for 'value' in the suggested translation
2. "The theme" in "The theme of value" should be interpreted as "the subject" on which the discussion is to be focused
It can be dropped without losing a single bit of information (see original explanation)
3. If "ценности" was a plural, then the context would read "теме ценностей"
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 дн22 час (2011-07-02 12:07:27 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
Andrei B Local time: 15:59 Native speaker of: Russian PRO pts in category: 7
Grading comment
Thanks, Andrei. Your insights are helpful and interesting. I wonder whether other native speakers of Russian agree with their general tenor. The only problem is that I didn't have time to read your very long answer thoroughly until after my deadline was passed and I had handed in the job! But that's life in the translation profession.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Goodness, what a lot of research! Thanks. I should note that I believe the speaker is being somewhat sarcastic. He is a journalist, a moderator of a panel, and wants to deflate some of the hot air from the others in the balloon (to mix my metaphors).
Asker: A small point: I realize that ценности is genitive singular, but I didn't think it made sense in English except as plural. "The theme of value" sounds to me like either 1) philosophy: "Whithead's Theory of Value," or 2) economics, as in value-added tax. Indeed, "values" does correspond to the overall subject of this third part of a panel discussion, but of course I didn't provide that information.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +2
