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иезуитский опыт

English translation: machiavellian/cunning


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01:36 Jan 30, 2012
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics
Russian term or phrase: иезуитский опыт
...иезуитского опыта манипулирования, в частности, Думой... просто нет.

Google is not providing any good hints as to what this means idiomatically. Help please!
fairvega
Local time: 05:00
English translation:machiavellian/cunning
Explanation:
иезуитский

Синонимы: двуличный, злокозненный, коварный, лицемерный, лукавый, макиавеллевский, макиавеллистический, хитрый

source: Толковый словарь Ожегова (http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ogegova/70830)



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Note added at 34 mins (2012-01-30 02:11:14 GMT)
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"Jesuit" or "jesuitical" both have a similar meaning in English: "practicing casuistry or equivocation; using subtle or oversubtle reasoning; crafty; sly; intriguing." (from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jesuitical)

However, I don't think it's a good idea to use these terms in the English translation. Jesuits were involved in quite a few controversies back in the day, but today they have a much better reputation. They are known for providing high-quality education and doing missionary work.

- Former student of a Jesuit high school and university. :)
Selected response from:

Roman M
United States
Local time: 08:00
Grading comment
Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2machiavellian/cunning
Roman M
4In a manner the Jesuits did it (tyranny and deception by means of craft or guile)
Alexandra Taggart
4jesuitical
Susan Welsh


  

Answers


20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
machiavellian/cunning


Explanation:
иезуитский

Синонимы: двуличный, злокозненный, коварный, лицемерный, лукавый, макиавеллевский, макиавеллистический, хитрый

source: Толковый словарь Ожегова (http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ogegova/70830)



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2012-01-30 02:11:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Jesuit" or "jesuitical" both have a similar meaning in English: "practicing casuistry or equivocation; using subtle or oversubtle reasoning; crafty; sly; intriguing." (from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jesuitical)

However, I don't think it's a good idea to use these terms in the English translation. Jesuits were involved in quite a few controversies back in the day, but today they have a much better reputation. They are known for providing high-quality education and doing missionary work.

- Former student of a Jesuit high school and university. :)

Roman M
United States
Local time: 08:00
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you!
Notes to answerer
Asker: I think Machiavellian will have to be it. I had no inkling of this second meaning of Jesuit, in either language! You learn something new every day...


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  vita z
17 hrs
  -> thank you!

agree  cyhul
5 days
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
jesuitical


Explanation:
This is a perfectly good and understandable English term. In lower case, it refers to a concept with a historical referent, not a present-day religious order per se. What the translator thinks of the Jesuits has nothing to do with it. Just as if you say "jacobin," you are not literally talking about the French Revolution. And after all, Machiavelli was an important repubican figure in the history of Italy, and an ally of Leonardo da Vinci. So the use of the word machiavellian does not define the actual historical personage.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2012-01-30 12:32:24 GMT)
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Typo: "republican," of course! Sorry.

Susan Welsh
United States
Local time: 08:00
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
In a manner the Jesuits did it (tyranny and deception by means of craft or guile)


Explanation:
They were cruel, crafty and deceptive.

Alexandra Taggart
Russian Federation
Local time: 16:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 3
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