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Девочке запрет из 40 домов

English translation: для девочек 40 запретов - there are 40 taboos for the girls

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05:11 Mar 7, 2007
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings / Kazakhstan
Russian term or phrase: Девочке запрет из 40 домов
Yeah, yeah, I can do the literal translation too, but I need some cultural background to get to some kind of similar meaning in English
Dorene Cornwell
Local time: 06:13
English translation:для девочек 40 запретов - there are 40 taboos for the girls
Explanation:
-

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-07 07:01:19 GMT)
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PDF] ФЕРГАНСКАЯ ДОЛИНА: ВЫЗОВЫ ВРЕМЕНИFayl formati (turi): PDF/Adobe Acrobat - GTBT(Giper Text Belgilash Tili)da ko'rsat
в Кыргызстане – «кызга кырк жерден тыйуу», что означает «для девочек – сорок. запретов». Вопрос о механизмах защиты прав женщин является важным аспектом ...
db.un.org.kg/upload/docs/publications/231.pdf


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Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-07 07:06:30 GMT)
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It is no good to translate proverbs word-for-word, in the Kyrgyz version this proverb says "there are bans/taboos from 40 places for a girl"

кыз - girl
кырк - forty

these words sounding somewhat similar form a nice proverb.

All it says there are many more bans / taboos for the girls vs.boys


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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-07 07:15:23 GMT)
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Turkic nations use "forty" meaning "many" or "lots".

E.g. an Uzbek proverb says:

Для доброго молодца и сорока ремёсел мало.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-07 07:16:48 GMT)
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(йигит кишига кирк хунар хам оз)

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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-07 15:54:17 GMT)
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Well, sorry Marina, in my view it IS "pointing out that a girl is not allowed to do many things that boys are free to do". The question was about the meaning of the proverb; community and other things come after.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-07 15:55:18 GMT)
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and I have posted this five hours earlier than you.
Selected response from:

Zamira*****
Russian Federation
Local time: 16:13
Grading comment
Thank you Zamira for all the references. I will post a general note about what I think I will do in English, but I especially appreciate the cultural comments.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +3для девочек 40 запретов - there are 40 taboos for the girls
Zamira*****
3 +2possible definition (see below)
Marina Khonina
3<explanation>
ruslingua


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
possible definition (see below)


Explanation:
It looks like the proverb means that the girl's family and community (thus the reference to 40 houses) must instill traditional values in her and warn her about the possible consequences of dating boys.

Here's an example:
"Дело в том, что я еще не замужем. Как говорят казахи, засиделась на родительской половине. Да и разборчивая очень в юности была. Не было желания знакомиться с первым встречным. Я воспитывалась в строгих правилах, совсем как в народной пословице «Для девушки запрет из сорока домов». Мои родители современные люди, не догадались просватать меня, по обычаю, еще в колыбели. "
http://www.ktko.org/pyesya_show.asp?id=25

I forwarded this question to my friends in Kazakhstan, who may be familiar with the proverb. I will let you know if they come up with a better definition.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-03-07 11:30:45 GMT)
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I got a reply from my Kazakh friends, and here's what they say about the meaning of this proverb: "A girl's (young woman's) life is more difficult than that of a man, and for this reason she should be taught self-restraint and chastity."

They said that the wording of the proverb was correct ("40 houses", not "40 taboos"), but it looks like the meaning is that girls face many taboos, so Zamira's on the right track.

However, I don't think that it would be appropriate to use "forty taboos" in your context, because it looks like the author tries to use the proverb to support her (or his) statement that a girl should be warned about certain things, rather than pointing out that a girl is not allowed to do many things that boys are free to do.

Marina Khonina
Turkey
Local time: 16:13
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marta Argat: I friend of mine from Uzbekistan explained that to me the same way: the whole community watches over a girl's behavior, not only her parents :O
5 hrs
  -> Thank you. I think it would make sense to emphasize the community aspect, rather than restrictions, in Dorene's context.

neutral  Zamira*****: I did say 'there are many more bans for the grls than for the boys' so i believe it is appropriate
7 hrs
  -> Zamira, I did not mean to argue with you. When I first posted my answer, there were no other answers so I thought I'd venture a guess.

agree  Alexander Demyanov
8 hrs
  -> Thank you, Alexander.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
<explanation>


Explanation:
Вполне возможно, что в казахском, как и в русском (ср. "сорок сороков") число 40 -- в контексте пословиц и т.п. -- просто является синонимом понятия "много". Во мн. языках (в т.ч., в русском) ту же функцию выполняет число 7 ("Семь бед -- один ответ").
А "дом" -- это, видимо, "род", "племя".

Другими словами, "ее должны предостерегать со всех сторон"

ruslingua
Local time: 16:13
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 5
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
для девочек 40 запретов - there are 40 taboos for the girls


Explanation:
-

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-07 07:01:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PDF] ФЕРГАНСКАЯ ДОЛИНА: ВЫЗОВЫ ВРЕМЕНИFayl formati (turi): PDF/Adobe Acrobat - GTBT(Giper Text Belgilash Tili)da ko'rsat
в Кыргызстане – «кызга кырк жерден тыйуу», что означает «для девочек – сорок. запретов». Вопрос о механизмах защиты прав женщин является важным аспектом ...
db.un.org.kg/upload/docs/publications/231.pdf


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-07 07:06:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It is no good to translate proverbs word-for-word, in the Kyrgyz version this proverb says "there are bans/taboos from 40 places for a girl"

кыз - girl
кырк - forty

these words sounding somewhat similar form a nice proverb.

All it says there are many more bans / taboos for the girls vs.boys


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-07 07:15:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Turkic nations use "forty" meaning "many" or "lots".

E.g. an Uzbek proverb says:

Для доброго молодца и сорока ремёсел мало.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-07 07:16:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(йигит кишига кирк хунар хам оз)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-07 15:54:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Well, sorry Marina, in my view it IS "pointing out that a girl is not allowed to do many things that boys are free to do". The question was about the meaning of the proverb; community and other things come after.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-07 15:55:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

and I have posted this five hours earlier than you.

Zamira*****
Russian Federation
Local time: 16:13
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UzbekUzbek
PRO pts in category: 18
Grading comment
Thank you Zamira for all the references. I will post a general note about what I think I will do in English, but I especially appreciate the cultural comments.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alexander Onishko
5 hrs
  -> спасибо

agree  Hana Stosic
6 hrs
  -> спасибо

agree  David Knowles: This is an interesting question I've just come across! Does сорок come from кырк?
2 days9 hrs
  -> Thank you, 'кырк' means 'forty', I do not know what word it comes from
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