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Ч ИПДЕ - tenses

English translation: it is not proper Russian, you are right

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16:01 May 22, 2005
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Law (general)
Russian term or phrase: Ч ИПДЕ - tenses
A letter begins like this:

зхчд ЗПТПДБ иии УППВЭБЕФ чБН, ЮФП чБЫЕ ЪБСЧМЕОЙЕ П ОЕЪБЛПООПН ЧПЪДХЦДЕОЙЙ ХЗПМПЧОПЗП ДЕМБ ОБ чБУ ТБУУНПФТЕОП. ч ИПДЕ РТПЧЕДЕООПК РТПЧЕТЛЙ УППВЭБЕН, ЮФП рТПЛХТБФХТПК ЗПТПДБ иии ОБ чБУ ЧПЪВХЦДЕОП ХЗПМПЧОПЕ ДЕМП РП (... )
ч ХДПЧМЕФЧПОЕОЙЙ ЦБМПВЩ ПФЛБЪБФШ.

The tenses seem strange. If Ч ИПДЕ means "in the course of", it seems strange to use the present tense. Can Ч ИПДЕ mean something else? Or is this Belorussian-speak? And why the infinitive for ПФЛБЪБФШ?
Kajuco
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:13
English translation:it is not proper Russian, you are right
Explanation:
I have no idea why those who answered the question keep saying that is normal(bureaucratic)language... Asker is not native Russian but it is obvious that there is an error. I am not talking about "otkazat", this is OK. But the second sentence is really incorrect. It is possible they were typing in a hurry and missed something, like:
"ч ИПДЕ РТПЧЕДЕООПК РТПЧЕТЛЙ *ЧЩСУОЙМЙУШ ЖБЛФЩ/ПВУФПСФЕМШУФЧБ, ОБ ПУОПЧБОЙЙ ЛПФПТЩИ* УППВЭБЕН, ЮФП.......
"ч ИПДЕ.....*РПМХЮЕОЩ ДПЛБЪБФЕМШУФЧБ чБЫЕК ЧЙОПЧОПУФЙ, Ч УЧСЪЙ У ЮЕН* УППВЭБЕН....
It does not make any sense, because anyway the checking process should be over prior to make an announcement and a conclusion ( but not to do it IN THE PROCESS OF CHECKING).

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Note added at 2 days 16 hrs 33 mins (2005-05-25 08:35:36 GMT)
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с ВХДХ РЙУБФШ Ч ФПК ЦЕ ЛПДЙТПЧЛЕ, ЮФП Й бУЛЕТ. ьФП ХЦЕ 2-ПК УМХЮБК,ЛПЗДБ БНЕТЙЛБОЛБ УРТПУЙМБ ЪДЕУШ П ЪОБЮЕОЙЙ \"чЩ РПРТБЧЙМЙУШ?\"- ЧУЕ ДТХЦОП, ИПТПН ПФЧЕЮБМЙ, ЮФП ТЕЮШ ЙДЕФ П РПРТБЧЛЕ ЪДПТПЧШС. с ВЩМБ Ч ПДЙОПЮЕУФЧЕ, ОЙЛФП ОЕ РПДДЕТЦБМ, ЛПЗДБ С ДПЛБЪЩЧБМБ, ЮФП РТЙВБЧЛБ ЧЕУБ- ФПЦЕ РПРТБЧЙФШУС... вМБЗПДБТС ФПНХ, ЮФП бУЛЕТ РПРБМБ Ч ОЕМПЧЛХА УЙФХБГЙА ЙЪ-ЪБ ЬФПЗП ЧПРТПУБ(УРТПУЙМБ П ЪДПТПЧШЕ, Б ЦЕОЭЙОБ ПВЙДЕМБУШ, ПФЧЕФЙМБ, ЮФП РПИХДЕМБ, ОБПВПТПФ)- ЧПРТПУ ВЩМ ТЕЫЕО Ч НПА РПМШЪХ. оП С ОЙЛБЛ ОЕ НПЗМБ РПОСФШ - Ч ЮЕН ДЕМП? рЕТЕЧПДЮЙЛЙ, МЙОЗЧЙУФЩ- Х ОЙИ ДПМЦЕО ВЩФШ ПУПВП ЮХФЛЙК УМХИ ОБ ЬФЙ ЧЕЭЙ...
уРТБЫЙЧБЕФ - ПФЧЕЮБЕН:ДБ, РМПИПК ТХУУЛЙК, ЛФП-ФП ВЕЪЗТБНПФОЩК РЙУБМ, ЫЛПМХ Й ЙОУФЙФХФ ЪБЛПОЮЙМ \"РП ВМБФХ\" Й РТ. РТ. РТ.

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Note added at 3 days 3 hrs 52 mins (2005-05-25 19:53:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

дБ,ЧЕТОП, ЮЙФБФШ УФБМЙ НБМП- ОЕ НПДОП ОЩОЕ. оБЧЕТОПЕ,ЬФП РТПГЕУУ ЬЧПМАГЙЙ, Б С ЛБЛ РЕТЕЦЙФПЛ РТПЫМПЗП,ЧПТЮХ,ЛБЛ РТЙОСФП Ч РТПВМЕНЕ \"ПФГЩ Й ДЕФЙ\"....

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Note added at 4 days (2005-05-26 23:17:30 GMT)
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бУЛЕТХ- пВТБФЙФЕ ЧОЙНБОЙЕ ОБ ПДОХ ДЕФБМШ. \"ч ИПДЕ ртпчедеоопк РТПЧЕТЛЙ УППВЭБЕН.....\". рТЙЮБУФЙЕ УФПЙФ Ч ЪБЛПОЮЕООПК ЖПТНЕ, РТПЧЕТЛБ РТПЧЕДЕОБ.
еУМЙ ВЩ ВЩМП \"ч ИПДЕ ртпчпдйнпк РТПЧЕТЛЙ УППВЭБЕН...\", ФПЗДБ РТПЧЕТЛБ чуе еэе РТПЧПДЙФУС Й, Ч РТЙОГЙРЕ, НПЦОП УППВЭЙФШ ЛБЛЙЕ-ФП РТЕДЧБТЙФЕМШОЩЕ/ФТЕВХАЭЙЕ УТПЮОПЗП ПЗМБЫЕОЙС ТЕЪХМШФБФЩ. еУМЙ ПУФБЧЙФШ\"Ч ИПДЕ РТПЧЕДЕООПК...\", ФП РТЙЮБУФЙЕ ХЛБЪЩЧБЕФ ОБ ХЦЕ УПУФПСЧЫЕЕУС ДЕКУФЧЙЕ, Й РПУМЕДХАЭЙК ЗМБЗПМ ДПМЦЕО ВЩФШ ЙМЙ Ч РТПЫЕДЫЕН ЧТЕНЕОЙ, ЙМЙ Ч ВЕЪМЙЮОПК ЖПТНЕ( УППВЭЙМЙ-УППВЭЕОП). рТЙЮБУФЙЕ ХЛБЪЩЧБЕФ ОБ ФП, ЮФП ДЕКУФЧЙЕ ЪБЛПОЮЕОП, ЪОБЮЙФ,\"Ч ИПДЕ РТПЧЕТЛЙ\" УППВЭБФШ Ч ОБУФПСЭЕН ЧТЕНЕОЙ ХЦЕ ОЕМШЪС (РПЕЪД ХЦЕ ХЫЕМ).
Selected response from:

Ann Nosova
United States
Local time: 10:13
Grading comment
Thank you for putting my mind at rest by confirming that all is not right with this sentence.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +6normal beauraucratic Russian...xxxTatiana Nero
4 +1it is not proper Russian, you are right
Ann Nosova
4 +1normal beauraucratic Russian...xxxTatiana Nero
3 +1I agree with the previous speakers
Drunya
3As a result of ...Andrey Belousov


Discussion entries: 11





  

Answers


1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Ч ИПДЕ - tenses
As a result of ...


Explanation:
@

Andrey Belousov
United States
Local time: 10:13
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in category: 198
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
„r „‡„Ђ„t„u - tenses
normal beauraucratic Russian...


Explanation:
Seems like normal beauraucractic Russian to me. People writing those letters are not rocket scientists, you know, and sometimes there is no sequence of tenses (which is loose in Russian anyway).

"„B „‡„Ђ„t„u" is not fitting in style, I agree - it is better to say "„B „‚„u„x„…„|„Ћ„„„p„„„u", but whatever they said they said it...

"„O„„„{„p„x„p„„„Ћ" - there is no mistake in using the infinitive here. It is another case of "official language", itЃLs normal to have official decisions (verdicts) rendered in the form of an infinitive.

„Q„u„Љ„y„|„y, „Ѓ„Ђ„ѓ„„„p„~„Ђ„r„y„|„y - „‚„p„ѓ„ѓ„}„Ђ„„„‚„u„„„Ћ, „Ђ„„„{„p„x„p„„„Ћ, „~„p„Ѓ„‚„p„r„y„„„Ћ, „r„Ђ„x„q„…„t„y„„„Ћ „y „„.„t.

xxxTatiana Nero
Local time: 10:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Robert Donahue
2 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
В ходе - tenses
I agree with the previous speakers


Explanation:
В ходе проведенной проверки сообщаем, is a typical dangling modifier; there are tons of them in many languages, Russian included :-) It must mean something along the lines of (Please be informed that as a result of our investigation a criminal case against you has been initiated).


В удовлетвонении жалобы отказать - the infinitive either serves as an imperative (for other authorities) or is either a shorthand for решено в удовлетворении жалобы отказать.

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Note added at 19 mins (2005-05-22 16:21:17 GMT)
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One \"either\" too many in the last paragraph - sorry for this mess :-(

Drunya
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxTatiana Nero: Agree with Imperative mood - see above (I'm trying to add to my post, it is getting rejected somehow)...
9 mins
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
„r „‡„Ђ„t„u - tenses
normal beauraucratic Russian...


Explanation:
Seems like normal beauraucractic Russian to me. People writing those letters are not rocket scientists, you know, and sometimes there is no sequence of tenses (which is loose in Russian anyway).

"„B „‡„Ђ„t„u" is not fitting in style, I agree - it is better to say "„B „‚„u„x„…„|„Ћ„„„p„„„u", but whatever they said they said it...

"„O„„„{„p„x„p„„„Ћ" - there is no mistake in using the infinitive here. It is another case of "official language", itЃLs normal to have official decisions (verdicts) rendered in the form of an infinitive.

„Q„u„Љ„y„|„y, „Ѓ„Ђ„ѓ„„„p„~„Ђ„r„y„|„y - „‚„p„ѓ„ѓ„}„Ђ„„„‚„u„„„Ћ, „Ђ„„„{„p„x„p„„„Ћ, „~„p„Ѓ„‚„p„r„y„„„Ћ, „r„Ђ„x„q„…„t„y„„„Ћ „y „„.„t.

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Note added at 33 mins (2005-05-22 16:35:33 GMT)
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Infinitive is often used as a form of the Imperative Mood to render more authority - it is used in court decisions, other official documents as in \"uvolitj, zachislitj, priniatj, osuditj, ukazatj\" etc.

When you say \"vstanjte, pozhaluysta, zdesj\", it is one thing, although it is using a form of the Imperative Mood, it is still a request. \"Vstatj!\" is a command, and it is either very rude, or coming from a person who has an authority (amounting to police power) over the addressee - like \"Vstatj, sud idyot!\"

I am repeating a piece up above in mingled encoding in latin letters -

\"V khode\" is not fitting in style, I agree - it is better to say \"v resultate\", but whatever they said they said it... It is official language, and mistake in it abound, but they still say it like they do - consider \"igraet znachenie\", \"imeet rolj\" etc. etc.

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Note added at 35 mins (2005-05-22 16:36:53 GMT)
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Infinitive is often used as a form of the Imperative Mood to render more authority - it is used in court decisions, other official documents as in \"uvolitj, zachislitj, priniatj, osuditj, ukazatj\" etc.

When you say \"vstanjte, pozhaluysta, zdesj\", it is one thing, although it is using a form of the Imperative Mood, it is still a request. \"Vstatj!\" is a command, and it is either very rude, or coming from a person who has an authority (amounting to police power) over the addressee - like \"Vstatj, sud idyot!\"

I am repeating a piece up above in mingled encoding in latin letters -

\"V khode\" is not fitting in style, I agree - it is better to say \"v resultate\", but whatever they said they said it... It is official language, and mistake in it abound, but they still say it like they do - consider \"igraet znachenie\", \"imeet rolj\" etc. etc.

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Note added at 1 hr 38 mins (2005-05-22 17:40:04 GMT)
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This is infinitive is STANDARD Russian for decisions by official bodies, including court and DA\'s office (Prokuratura). When a court in the US makes a decision - it also says \"SO ORDERED\", and it is relevant to and binding upon everybody involved with the decision, same here - the decision \"Otkazatj\" is an ORDER relevant to and binding upon everybody involved, including the claimant.

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Note added at 1 hr 39 mins (2005-05-22 17:41:02 GMT)
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Sorry for the typo - \"This infinitive\", not \"this is infinitive\", of course...

xxxTatiana Nero
Local time: 10:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jack Doughty: Looks as if you're having encoding problems too. Kajuco's messages turn into KOI8-R, but yours turn into something else, I've no idea what! Also, your answer appears twice.
4 mins
  -> Jack, I posted my answer only once and, believe me, I wrote in Russian, I do not know the language it has turned into :). Sorry about that, I'll post explanations in Latin letters... Thanks!

agree  Alexander Demyanov: On the infinitive usage: I believe in phrases like this, there is an implicit "рТЙОСФП ТЕЫЕОЙЕ" (ПФЛБЪБФШ or whatever)
11 mins
  -> Thank you!

agree  Robert Donahue
2 hrs
  -> Thank you!

agree  Svetlana Chekunova
3 hrs
  -> Thank you!

agree  Blithe
3 hrs
  -> Thank you!

agree  alex11: so ordered is perfect example. but what a mess with encoding. Mamma Mia!
8 hrs
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Ч ИПДЕ - tenses
it is not proper Russian, you are right


Explanation:
I have no idea why those who answered the question keep saying that is normal(bureaucratic)language... Asker is not native Russian but it is obvious that there is an error. I am not talking about "otkazat", this is OK. But the second sentence is really incorrect. It is possible they were typing in a hurry and missed something, like:
"ч ИПДЕ РТПЧЕДЕООПК РТПЧЕТЛЙ *ЧЩСУОЙМЙУШ ЖБЛФЩ/ПВУФПСФЕМШУФЧБ, ОБ ПУОПЧБОЙЙ ЛПФПТЩИ* УППВЭБЕН, ЮФП.......
"ч ИПДЕ.....*РПМХЮЕОЩ ДПЛБЪБФЕМШУФЧБ чБЫЕК ЧЙОПЧОПУФЙ, Ч УЧСЪЙ У ЮЕН* УППВЭБЕН....
It does not make any sense, because anyway the checking process should be over prior to make an announcement and a conclusion ( but not to do it IN THE PROCESS OF CHECKING).

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Note added at 2 days 16 hrs 33 mins (2005-05-25 08:35:36 GMT)
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с ВХДХ РЙУБФШ Ч ФПК ЦЕ ЛПДЙТПЧЛЕ, ЮФП Й бУЛЕТ. ьФП ХЦЕ 2-ПК УМХЮБК,ЛПЗДБ БНЕТЙЛБОЛБ УРТПУЙМБ ЪДЕУШ П ЪОБЮЕОЙЙ \"чЩ РПРТБЧЙМЙУШ?\"- ЧУЕ ДТХЦОП, ИПТПН ПФЧЕЮБМЙ, ЮФП ТЕЮШ ЙДЕФ П РПРТБЧЛЕ ЪДПТПЧШС. с ВЩМБ Ч ПДЙОПЮЕУФЧЕ, ОЙЛФП ОЕ РПДДЕТЦБМ, ЛПЗДБ С ДПЛБЪЩЧБМБ, ЮФП РТЙВБЧЛБ ЧЕУБ- ФПЦЕ РПРТБЧЙФШУС... вМБЗПДБТС ФПНХ, ЮФП бУЛЕТ РПРБМБ Ч ОЕМПЧЛХА УЙФХБГЙА ЙЪ-ЪБ ЬФПЗП ЧПРТПУБ(УРТПУЙМБ П ЪДПТПЧШЕ, Б ЦЕОЭЙОБ ПВЙДЕМБУШ, ПФЧЕФЙМБ, ЮФП РПИХДЕМБ, ОБПВПТПФ)- ЧПРТПУ ВЩМ ТЕЫЕО Ч НПА РПМШЪХ. оП С ОЙЛБЛ ОЕ НПЗМБ РПОСФШ - Ч ЮЕН ДЕМП? рЕТЕЧПДЮЙЛЙ, МЙОЗЧЙУФЩ- Х ОЙИ ДПМЦЕО ВЩФШ ПУПВП ЮХФЛЙК УМХИ ОБ ЬФЙ ЧЕЭЙ...
уРТБЫЙЧБЕФ - ПФЧЕЮБЕН:ДБ, РМПИПК ТХУУЛЙК, ЛФП-ФП ВЕЪЗТБНПФОЩК РЙУБМ, ЫЛПМХ Й ЙОУФЙФХФ ЪБЛПОЮЙМ \"РП ВМБФХ\" Й РТ. РТ. РТ.

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Note added at 3 days 3 hrs 52 mins (2005-05-25 19:53:53 GMT)
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дБ,ЧЕТОП, ЮЙФБФШ УФБМЙ НБМП- ОЕ НПДОП ОЩОЕ. оБЧЕТОПЕ,ЬФП РТПГЕУУ ЬЧПМАГЙЙ, Б С ЛБЛ РЕТЕЦЙФПЛ РТПЫМПЗП,ЧПТЮХ,ЛБЛ РТЙОСФП Ч РТПВМЕНЕ \"ПФГЩ Й ДЕФЙ\"....

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Note added at 4 days (2005-05-26 23:17:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

бУЛЕТХ- пВТБФЙФЕ ЧОЙНБОЙЕ ОБ ПДОХ ДЕФБМШ. \"ч ИПДЕ ртпчедеоопк РТПЧЕТЛЙ УППВЭБЕН.....\". рТЙЮБУФЙЕ УФПЙФ Ч ЪБЛПОЮЕООПК ЖПТНЕ, РТПЧЕТЛБ РТПЧЕДЕОБ.
еУМЙ ВЩ ВЩМП \"ч ИПДЕ ртпчпдйнпк РТПЧЕТЛЙ УППВЭБЕН...\", ФПЗДБ РТПЧЕТЛБ чуе еэе РТПЧПДЙФУС Й, Ч РТЙОГЙРЕ, НПЦОП УППВЭЙФШ ЛБЛЙЕ-ФП РТЕДЧБТЙФЕМШОЩЕ/ФТЕВХАЭЙЕ УТПЮОПЗП ПЗМБЫЕОЙС ТЕЪХМШФБФЩ. еУМЙ ПУФБЧЙФШ\"Ч ИПДЕ РТПЧЕДЕООПК...\", ФП РТЙЮБУФЙЕ ХЛБЪЩЧБЕФ ОБ ХЦЕ УПУФПСЧЫЕЕУС ДЕКУФЧЙЕ, Й РПУМЕДХАЭЙК ЗМБЗПМ ДПМЦЕО ВЩФШ ЙМЙ Ч РТПЫЕДЫЕН ЧТЕНЕОЙ, ЙМЙ Ч ВЕЪМЙЮОПК ЖПТНЕ( УППВЭЙМЙ-УППВЭЕОП). рТЙЮБУФЙЕ ХЛБЪЩЧБЕФ ОБ ФП, ЮФП ДЕКУФЧЙЕ ЪБЛПОЮЕОП, ЪОБЮЙФ,\"Ч ИПДЕ РТПЧЕТЛЙ\" УППВЭБФШ Ч ОБУФПСЭЕН ЧТЕНЕОЙ ХЦЕ ОЕМШЪС (РПЕЪД ХЦЕ ХЫЕМ).

Ann Nosova
United States
Local time: 10:13
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you for putting my mind at rest by confirming that all is not right with this sentence.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ruslingua: ьФЙ НЩУМЙ Й НЕОС ОЕТЕДЛП ХДТХЮБАФ.оП ДЕМП ФХФ ОЕ Ч ПВТБЪПЧБОЙЙ. с ЧПФ - ОЕ ЖЙМПМПЗ. дЕМП Ч ПВЭЕК ЛХМШФХТОПК ДЕЗТБДБГЙЙ. 30 МЕФ ОБЪБД С НПЗ ЛПТТЕЛФЙТПЧБФШ УЧПЕ РТПЙЪОПЫЕОЙЕ, ПТЙЕОФЙТХСУШ ОБ ДЙЛФПТПЧ фч. фЕРЕТШ С УБН НПЗХ ЙИ ЛПТТЕЛФЙТПЧБФШ: ЛБЦДЩЕ 5 НЙО
1 day2 hrs
  -> УРБУЙВП, чЩ РТБЧЩ, ОП РПЮЕНХ ЗПЧПТСФ, ЮФП ЬФП ОПТНБМШОП? see note,pleaseУН.ДПРПМОЕОЙЕ,РПЦБМХКУФБ
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