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Отдел вневедомственной охраны

English translation: Non-departmental (security) guards

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:Отдел вневедомственной охраны
English translation:Non-departmental (security) guards
Entered by: Olga Simon
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

14:01 Aug 24, 2002
Russian to English translations [PRO]
/ Title of security organisation
Russian term or phrase: Отдел вневедомственной охраны
How do you translate 'vnevedomstvenny'
John Sowerby
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:49
Non-departmental (security) guards
Explanation:
... Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense, non-departmental
guards of the Russian Federation Ministry of Internal Affairs, or ...
www.nti.org/db/nisprofs/russia/reactor/ mpca/mpcadecs/physprot.ht

C:OCCPAPEROCP2.ASC
... from Ukrainian citizens. These weapons may come from outside of the republic or are
stolen from militia men, non-departmental guards, or others. One source is ...

www.fas.org/news/ukraine/ocp2.htm



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Note added at 2002-08-24 14:08:42 (GMT)
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Sometimes people say \"outsourced secutirty department\", if you prefer this one.

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Note added at 2002-08-24 14:09:03 (GMT)
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Sometimes people say \"outsourced security department\", if you prefer this one.

RMI Group
... risks. RMI, in effect, provides a virtual and outsourced security
department operating in support of client business operations. ...
www.rmi.ie/rmisecurity/aboutus.html
Selected response from:

Olga Simon
Hungary
Local time: 19:49
Grading comment
Thank you very much.
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +3independent security (force) dept
Oleg Rudavin
5 +3security
Michael Tovbin
5 +2Non-departmental (security) guards
Olga Simon
5 +1some info on security
Vladimir Dubisskiy
3 +2in support of security...
Libero_Lang_Lab
4Contracted security (department)xxxOleg Pashuk


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Non-departmental (security) guards


Explanation:
... Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense, non-departmental
guards of the Russian Federation Ministry of Internal Affairs, or ...
www.nti.org/db/nisprofs/russia/reactor/ mpca/mpcadecs/physprot.ht

C:OCCPAPEROCP2.ASC
... from Ukrainian citizens. These weapons may come from outside of the republic or are
stolen from militia men, non-departmental guards, or others. One source is ...

www.fas.org/news/ukraine/ocp2.htm



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-24 14:08:42 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sometimes people say \"outsourced secutirty department\", if you prefer this one.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-24 14:09:03 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sometimes people say \"outsourced security department\", if you prefer this one.

RMI Group
... risks. RMI, in effect, provides a virtual and outsourced security
department operating in support of client business operations. ...
www.rmi.ie/rmisecurity/aboutus.html

Olga Simon
Hungary
Local time: 19:49
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 465
Grading comment
Thank you very much.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Irene Chernenko: "Outsourced" is good, as opposed to staff security.
27 mins
  -> I have seen both - outsourced and non-departmental. Thank you.

neutral  Ludwig Chekhovtsov: А в Одессе говорят, что "outsourced"(внештатная) и "non-department"(вневедомственная) - это две большие разницы: вневедомственная - это именно милицейская (а не любая другая) охрана ведомственных учреждений, заведений и объектов.
1 hr
  -> As you see Irene and Jack (both native speakers) do not really agree with the opinion in Odessa. :) On a serious note - the Asker is interested in вневедомственная.

agree  Jack Doughty
2 hrs
  -> Thank you, Jack.
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
security


Explanation:
This is a recurring question. I figure security requires no further qualifiers. I do not think that anyone knows or cares why this type of security is called "вневедомственная". Probably, because it does not belong to any law-enforcement "ведомство". This part of the locution is not significant. It is security (rent-a-cop) as opposed to law enforcement.

Any qualifiers will feel funny in English because this is not an English-language notion, and such qualifiers will sound as a word-for-word translation that is slightly (or not so slightly) awkward.

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Note added at 2002-08-24 14:23:09 (GMT)
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If you absolutely need a qualifier go with \"nonlaw-enforcement\". This is still a funny word but, at least, it sounds a bit like authentic English.

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Note added at 2002-08-24 19:03:28 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If this is part of the ГУВД, I retract my previous statements. For me this always meant those folks in strange uniforms that sat at the entrance to government ministries and such.

I will know better now.

My suggestion would then be to modify security with \"external\". This is the Department of the Interior <H1>External Security</H1> function



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-24 19:04:12 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

thought HTML tags would work

Michael Tovbin
United States
Local time: 12:49
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 1220

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Libero_Lang_Lab: your logic seems very sound to me
9 mins

agree  marfus
39 mins

agree  Mark Vaintroub: Каакя разница - ведомственная, вневедомственная... Это же все равно охрана. Функции те же. Разница только в некоторых условностях в подчинении. Но здесь это скорее всего неважно.
1 hr

neutral  Olga Simon: If the Asker states "вневедомственная охрана" we can not just omit "вневедомственная" and consider it unimportant. "Security" or "guards" is obvious.
3 hrs
  -> Да, но без дополнительного пояснения перевод "non-departmental" все равно не будет понятен и вызовет недоумение.
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42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
in support of security...


Explanation:
perhaps you could further qualify it by calling it "contract security services" or "private security services" - would that make sense in the context?

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Note added at 2002-08-24 15:44:43 (GMT)
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Sounds like some clarification is needed, based on what Ludwig is saying... is it security provided by the police or is it contract security...? Ludwig I am afraid that non-departmental security makes no sense whatsoever and sounds simply like a translation from the Russian - this is what I mean when I say be wary of taking translations from Russian websites - even if 10 of them say the same thing - it\'s quite possible that they are all wrong.






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Note added at 2002-08-24 17:47:30 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To Olga - I wouldn\'t necessarily agree with your comment on Mtovbin\'s answer... sometimes the best translation of a word can be the zero option... as you know yourself, if we translated every word and not the meaning behind the words then we would not be doing our job properly. I have to disagree in this case with my fellow natives (;-)) and say that \"non-departmental security\" does not really make any sense to me.

Libero_Lang_Lab
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:49
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1214

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  protolmach
16 mins

neutral  Ludwig Chekhovtsov: It is not "private security services"!
43 mins
  -> it was a tentative suggestion - what kind of security is it then?

neutral  Olga Simon: If the Asker states "вневедомственная охрана" we can not just omit "вневедомственная" and consider it unimportant. "Security" or "guards" is obvious.
2 hrs
  -> see my comment above Olga

agree  David Knowles: I like "contract security services"
2 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Contracted security (department)


Explanation:
---

xxxOleg Pashuk
PRO pts in pair: 619
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
some info on security


Explanation:
i would not trust either ukrainian or russian sites in English - there is a lot of errors there and nobody knows who translated them.
Re: security. You probabl know that there are two main types of security on the West - so-called corporate security ie maintained / owned by the companies themselves (like huge department stores, or some banks); and private security services received on the contractual basis from various privately owned security companies. In some cases, the clients use both (but for different purposes, for inst. bank may have private, payrolled security personnel to provide, say, some internal investigations) and, at the same time, hire guards from a security company to guard the banking machine outlets.
In this particular case, I would use simply Security Department or if it's a title "Security company". (non-departamental sounds weird).


    BC Institute of Justice course
Vladimir Dubisskiy
United States
Local time: 12:49
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 1408

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Libero_Lang_Lab: a valuable intervention!
47 mins
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
independent security (force) dept


Explanation:
Indeed, lots of companies hire security as full-time members of their staff. Another way of guarding important objects (probably of national importance or where theft can be quite big/dangerous) is by independent security forces which are not subordinated to the company. They do have their bosses (usually law in enforcement organizations) but would not follow orders or instructions from the company administration and management staff.
Independent security (force) depts can be located on the company premises still they are not a part of the company's organizational structure.
That's the way is is here.
HTH
Oleg

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Note added at 2002-08-25 05:26:29 (GMT)
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Considering the asker\'s addition, yes, it\'s the department at the city (town) internal affairs office (ГУВД) which is responsible for providing security for major facilities or nationally important objects.

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Note added at 2002-08-25 05:31:30 (GMT)
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Thus it should be just \'security and guarding dept\'

Oleg Rudavin
Ukraine
Local time: 20:49
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 275

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Libero_Lang_Lab: right on - thanks for that - well that would mean that it CAN be either independent, private or contract - I think contract is still the best option, but there I go blowing my own trumpet...,
11 mins

agree  Mark Vaintroub: That makes it clear!
5 hrs

agree  xxxIreneN: Absolutely. Вневедомственная simply means outsourced, guns for hire with no personal interests other than their pay.
5 hrs

neutral  Ludwig Chekhovtsov: "Руководство деятельностью вневедомственной охраны осуществляется:Главным управлением вневедомственной охраны Министерства внутренних дел(см.ПОЛОЖЕНИЕ О ВНЕВЕДОМСТВЕННОЙ ОХРАНЕ ПРИ ОРГАНАХ ВНУТРЕННИХ ДЕЛ)-is it independendent?
19 hrs
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