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схватка под ковром

English translation: fighting under a carpet/the covers/wraps; undercover fighting; fighting behind the scenes

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:схватка под ковром
English translation:fighting under a carpet/the covers/wraps; undercover fighting; fighting behind the scenes
Entered by: xxxVera Fluhr
Options:
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17:17 Jan 22, 2004
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Russian term or phrase: схватка под ковром
Перефразируя великих, можно сказать, что в схватке под ковром побеждает сильнейший.

Я знаю, что "cхватка под ковром" это выражение Черчилля, но что-то не могу найти оригинал.

Пусть никто про меня не подумает, что я перевожу такие тексты на английский. Просто нужны примеры идиоматических выражений про ковер.

Кстати, какие еще есть про ковер? Никто не знает?
xxxVera Fluhr
Local time: 04:58
fight under wraps
Explanation:
A secret fight. Don't know if it fits your case, Vera, though.

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Note added at 1 hr 32 mins (2004-01-22 18:50:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Вот цитата - пример использования выражения.
The veil of secrecy over the government’s investigation of the terrorist attacks runs counter to the values of open democracy. It conceals crucial information from the public and media– information like whether the hundreds of detainees rounded up since September 11 are being afforded their constitutional rights.

On September 21, 2001, Chief Immigration Judge Michael Creppy issued a memorandum ordering closed deportation proceedings. Despite legal challenges by the ACLU, the hearings remain under wraps.


Тем не менее, можно ещё так:

Fighting in the wings
Fight(ing) behind the scenes.

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Note added at 1 hr 35 mins (2004-01-22 18:53:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

А может быть и так:

The undercover fight/struggle, or -
Fight/Wrestling/Struggle under the covers

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 43 mins (2004-01-22 19:01:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Wrestling/fighting under the covers also has a sexual connotation:) may also be used in case one of the partners is not willing to submit:)Methinks...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 30 mins (2004-01-22 22:48:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Я нашла это выражение. Вот линк и цитата:

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:h18cmwbRXusJ:www.cdi.org/...

Winston Churchill once remarked that observing Russian politics was \"like watching two dogs fighting under a carpet.\" In his recent state-of-the-nation address, Mr. Putin appeared to be making a concession to an unrevealed enemy, saying that, after the next elections, he might accept a government made up of winning parliamentary parties rather than Kremlin appointees.
Selected response from:

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 19:58
Grading comment
Спасибо, Рина, я использовала все твои варианты, не только исходный черчиллевский.

Кстати, насчет Черчилля у меня такой вопрос (если кто-то знает ответ, не откажите в любезности черкнуть мне по email): в русских переводах речь всегда идет о бульдогах, о "схватке бульдогов под ковром", а теперь вот выяснилось, что Черчилль сказал не "бульдоги", а просто "dogs".
Эти "бульдоги" в русском - это ошибка перевода, или что?

Большое спасибо Джеку и Диме за другие "ковровые" выражения - очень пригодились.

Большое спасибо всем за варианты и обсуждение.
Желаю всем хорошо провести уик-енд.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3fight under wraps
Montefiore
4 +1"under-the-carpet" struggle/fight; infighting
Vladimir Pochinov
4something swept under the rug that is covered up, usually hurriedlyDorene Cornwell
2carpet bombing
Jack Doughty


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
схватка под ковром
"under-the-carpet" struggle/fight; infighting


Explanation:
Вера, к сожалению все ссылки на "under-the-carpet" struggle/fight связаны, так или иначе, с русскоязычными первоисточниками. В этом значении мне часто встречалось слово infighting.

... majority of the population as a continuation of the disorganization that came with Perestroika as a result of the “under-the-carpet” struggle of political ...
www.stanford.edu/group/Russia20/volumepdf/Gudkov.pdf

As Occupation of Iraq Deteriorates, White House Infighting Intensifies.
edstrong.blog-city.com/read/317535.htm

Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 04:58
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 2209

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  manana
1 hr
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42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
something swept under the rug that is covered up, usually hurriedly


Explanation:
something swept under the rug that is covered up, usually hurriedly

Dorene Cornwell
Local time: 19:58
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 830
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
схватка под ковром
fight under wraps


Explanation:
A secret fight. Don't know if it fits your case, Vera, though.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 32 mins (2004-01-22 18:50:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Вот цитата - пример использования выражения.
The veil of secrecy over the government’s investigation of the terrorist attacks runs counter to the values of open democracy. It conceals crucial information from the public and media– information like whether the hundreds of detainees rounded up since September 11 are being afforded their constitutional rights.

On September 21, 2001, Chief Immigration Judge Michael Creppy issued a memorandum ordering closed deportation proceedings. Despite legal challenges by the ACLU, the hearings remain under wraps.


Тем не менее, можно ещё так:

Fighting in the wings
Fight(ing) behind the scenes.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 35 mins (2004-01-22 18:53:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

А может быть и так:

The undercover fight/struggle, or -
Fight/Wrestling/Struggle under the covers

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 43 mins (2004-01-22 19:01:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Wrestling/fighting under the covers also has a sexual connotation:) may also be used in case one of the partners is not willing to submit:)Methinks...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 30 mins (2004-01-22 22:48:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Я нашла это выражение. Вот линк и цитата:

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:h18cmwbRXusJ:www.cdi.org/...

Winston Churchill once remarked that observing Russian politics was \"like watching two dogs fighting under a carpet.\" In his recent state-of-the-nation address, Mr. Putin appeared to be making a concession to an unrevealed enemy, saying that, after the next elections, he might accept a government made up of winning parliamentary parties rather than Kremlin appointees.


Montefiore
United States
Local time: 19:58
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 312
Grading comment
Спасибо, Рина, я использовала все твои варианты, не только исходный черчиллевский.

Кстати, насчет Черчилля у меня такой вопрос (если кто-то знает ответ, не откажите в любезности черкнуть мне по email): в русских переводах речь всегда идет о бульдогах, о "схватке бульдогов под ковром", а теперь вот выяснилось, что Черчилль сказал не "бульдоги", а просто "dogs".
Эти "бульдоги" в русском - это ошибка перевода, или что?

Большое спасибо Джеку и Диме за другие "ковровые" выражения - очень пригодились.

Большое спасибо всем за варианты и обсуждение.
Желаю всем хорошо провести уик-енд.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  protolmach
5 hrs
  -> спасибо, Илона

agree  olganet
10 hrs
  -> спасибо, Ольга

agree  Jack Doughty: with "two dogs fighting under a carpet". Didn't notice your added note till after I'd added mine.
21 hrs
  -> thank you, Jack - yeah, it's OK, happens to the best of us:) I mean, not noticing the notes; this format has room for improvement; I think each new response of the same person should be highlighted, and not just the first one
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
схватка под ковром
carpet bombing


Explanation:
I wonder if this is the term meant, though I doubt it. It was the intensive bombing of a large target over a prescribed area.

Keeping to the Second World War, Hitler was sometimes called "the carpet eater", from his alleged habit of chewing the carpet when he flew into a rage (German: Teppichfresser).

Magic carpet: obviously from fairy tales, but is used metaphorically: "There is no magic carpet to the solution of this problem"

Carpet-bagger: US English expression from theaftermath of the Civil War: the "carpet-baggers" were people from the North who arrived in the South with next to nothing (all their possessions in a carpet bag) and went on to make their fortunes.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs 36 mins (2004-01-23 15:53:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Found it! Churchill spoke of \"dogs fighting under a carpet\".

In Russia, a \'creeping coup\'? | csmonitor.com
... Winston Churchill once remarked that observing Russian politics was \"like watching
two dogs fighting under a carpet.\" In his recent state-of-the-nation address ...
www.csmonitor.com/2003/0618/p06s01-woeu.htm - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

Information on This New Ocean : The Story of the Space Age ...
... doomed from the beginning by gross inefficiency and by infighting so treacherous
that Winston Churchill likened it to \"dogs fighting under a carpet\"; there was ...
www.featuredbooks.com/space_age.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

Amazon.com: Books: This New Ocean : The Story of the First Space ...
... Moon was doomed from the beginning by gross inefficiency and by infighting so treacherous
that Winston Churchill likened it to \"dogs fighting under a carpet\";. ...
www.csicop.org/q/book/0375754857 - 86k - Cached - Similar pages

Research Topics
... his family. \"Winston Churchill once said that a Russian power struggle
was like watching dogs fighting under a carpet. You can\'t ...
www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/3045.html


Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:58
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 14042

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  beserg: в данном случае это не "ковровая бомбардировка"
6 mins
  -> Well, as I said, I'm doubtful about it myself.

neutral  Eugene V: It only means that there is no magic way of instant transportation. "There is no silver bullet" means the absence of one/easy solution ||| Google finds 15 examples of "there is no magic carpet", 12900 of "there is no silver bullet".
12 mins
  -> Really? I've heard magic carpet as a metaphor, & found it on the Web, e.g.: “Fast for Freedom in Mental Health. Mainstream mental ‘therapy’ is no magic carpet ride." www.stopshrinks.org/ Maybe "no silver bullet" is US English only; I've never heard it.
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