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двигатель с дожиганием и без дожигания

English translation: rocket engine with or without afterburning

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:двигатель с дожиганием и без дожигания
English translation:rocket engine with or without afterburning
Entered by: Ludwig Chekhovtsov
Options:
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- Include in personal glossary

05:45 Mar 7, 2002
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering / Space technology
Russian term or phrase: двигатель с дожиганием и без дожигания
A description of a space rocket engine. The question is: how do we express that concept in English?
Ex-cadet
rocket engine with or without afterburning
Explanation:
AER 0510H Aerospace Propulsion
J. P. Sislian
Lecture Course
... the turbojet with or without afterburning ...
www.utias.utoronto.ca/test/course/fd.html
Liquid-Propellant Rocket Engine 11D33
... The first domestic liquid-propellant rocket engine with afterburning of generated gas in a combustion chamber allowed to achieve a specific impulse of up to 340 kgf s/kg in vacuum when using main components.
http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/launchers/engines.html
Selected response from:

Ludwig Chekhovtsov
Local time: 08:40
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +1..an engine, with or without afterburning...Burravoe Ltd
4 +2rocket engine with or without afterburningLudwig Chekhovtsov
4 +1afterburning engine and non-afterburning engineYelena Kurashova
4 +1with and without thrust augmentation
Roy Cochrun
5In addition to afterburning and non-afterburning
Olga Simon
5reheat/fa-afterburner engineOleg Vorobiev
4Open scheme engine, ...
Nicolay
4engine with staged combustion and traditional combustion
Alex Lane
4dry or with afterburning rocket engineLudwig Chekhovtsov
4reheat engine и non-reheat engine
Vladimir Dubisskiy
4an engine with complete combustion and without complete combustion
GaryG
4 -1Open/closed (combustion) cycle - без/с дожиганием
Natalia Bearden
1jet engine with afterburning and without afterburningAYP


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
afterburning engine and non-afterburning engine


Explanation:
По аналогии с "двигатель с турбонаддувом" - "turbocharged engine".

Yelena Kurashova
Local time: 15:40
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 27

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Timur Nakashidze
43 mins

agree  David Mitchell: I think 'engines with and without afterburners' would be tidier in English. For instance "GE turbofan engines with afterburners" from the literature.
1 hr

agree  Jack Doughty: Prefer David Mitchell's version (I was once an aero engine fitter in the RAF)
2 hrs

disagree  Peter Skipp: sorry - afterburning is Форсаж and only refers to air-breathing engines, not rocket ones
3 hrs

disagree  Nicolay: Afterburning - Догорание (в ракетном двигателе после прекращеия подачи топлива).Англо-русский словарь по космонавтике. Военное издательство МО СССР, Москва, 1964. Это не о двигателе с дожиганием/без.
16 hrs
  -> Простите, но у вас ссылка на словарь 1964 г. Все более новые словари дают все-таки перевод "afterburning" как "дожигание"...
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
reheat engine и non-reheat engine


Explanation:
reheat = дожигание (топлива)





    English-Russian Dictionary of Civil Aviation
Vladimir Dubisskiy
United States
Local time: 07:40
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 1408
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
..an engine, with or without afterburning...


Explanation:
"...an engine, with or without afterburning....." sounds more typically english - although afaterburner is also possible

Burravoe Ltd
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:40
PRO pts in pair: 50

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ludwig Chekhovtsov
5 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
In addition to afterburning and non-afterburning


Explanation:
In addition to the above see the following sites:

Falconer - 3rd Quarter 1998 - Page 2
... 50EX. Noise-suppression technology would allow it ... by three non-afterburning engines
(derived from ... weight and space penalty of ... a three-engine configuration for ...

www.falconjet.com/pubs/falconer/fr3q98/3qtr-98-p2.html

Proe Power Systems - Afterburning Ericsson Cycle Engine - ...
... for NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center where it ... The Technology: The recently patented
Afterburning Ericsson Cycle Engine integrates the Ericsson ...

209.238.233.132/PROEHOME.HTM


Olga Simon
Hungary
Local time: 14:40
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 465
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
reheat/fa-afterburner engine


Explanation:
Русско-англ. авиационно-космический словарь (Из-во Минобороны, Москва)

двигатель с оджиганием, турбореактивный - reheat engine

двигатель с дожигание в вентиляторном контуре, турбовентиляторный - fan-jfterburner engine

Cheers

Oleg Vorobiev
Canada
Local time: 08:40
PRO pts in pair: 12
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
with and without thrust augmentation


Explanation:
If it is indeed a rocket, then this phrase probably is better than using "afterburning."


    Astronautical Multilingual Dictionary of the International Academy of Sciences, Prague, 1970
Roy Cochrun
United States
Local time: 08:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 149

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Peter Skipp: yes, absolutely!!!
3 mins

neutral  Robert Creutz: Usually called (air-)augmented engines.
5 hrs
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
dry or with afterburning rocket engine


Explanation:
ENGINES
The first domestic liquid-propellant rocket engine with afterburning of generated gas in a combustion chamber allowed to achieve a specific impulse of ...
http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/launchers/engines.html

Yak-120M, Yak-120MF interceptor prototypes by A.S.Yakovlev
... in September 1953 Governmental order N°2359-965 was issued, ordering developing the aircraft for new afterburning engine AM-9A and heavy unguided ...
http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/yak-120m.html

Mikoyan MiG-21bis
One 40.2 kN (9038lb) dry and 69.7 kN (15653 lb) with afterburning (and 97.1 kN/21825 lb emergency rating) Tumansky (now Soyuz) R-25-300 turbojet ...
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/vvs/mig21bis-01.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-07 13:49:31 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry: rocket engine with or without afterburning

AER 0510H Aerospace Propulsion
J. P. Sislian
Lecture Course

the turbojet with or without afterburning
www.utias.utoronto.ca/test/course/fd.html

Ludwig Chekhovtsov
Local time: 08:40
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 217
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
rocket engine with or without afterburning


Explanation:
AER 0510H Aerospace Propulsion
J. P. Sislian
Lecture Course
... the turbojet with or without afterburning ...
www.utias.utoronto.ca/test/course/fd.html
Liquid-Propellant Rocket Engine 11D33
... The first domestic liquid-propellant rocket engine with afterburning of generated gas in a combustion chamber allowed to achieve a specific impulse of up to 340 kgf s/kg in vacuum when using main components.
http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/launchers/engines.html


Ludwig Chekhovtsov
Local time: 08:40
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 217
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Mitchell: For liquid-fueled rocket engines: 2) ЖРД с дожиганием генераторного газа (рис. 3в); 3) ЖРД без дожигания генераторного газа: http://referat.com.ru/referats/htm/o/240-2586.htm
45 mins
  -> Yes, thank you!

agree  Nicolay: Но и "Yak-120M, Yak-120MF", и "Mikoyan MiG-21bis", и "turbojet" - это авиация, не ракетная техника.
1 day10 hrs
  -> Но двигатель 11D33 - это ведь rocket engine with afterburning, а на лекции уважаемого профессора Сислиана из Университета Торонто я сослался, чтобы показать, что если есть with, то может быть и without afterburning.
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
an engine with complete combustion and without complete combustion


Explanation:
Per Callaham's (1995 edition) and a US government glossary.

I must admit I'm a bit puzzled about the phraseology; it seems a bit of an oxymoron.

GaryG
Local time: 08:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 3426

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  David Mitchell: This is an eternal quandry: in incineration, furnace off-gas combustibles recycling, etc. it's complete combustion. In most power applications, including engines of all kinds, it's afterburning. The conceptual underpinning is the same but English differs
2 hrs

neutral  Jack Slep: David, in metallurgy dozhiganie is post-combustion
8 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Open/closed (combustion) cycle - без/с дожиганием


Explanation:
I am 99% sure about this one: happened to translate a lot of this stuff. Closed cycle engines were developed by Russian designers in the 1960s, which resulted in a huge efficiency boost.

In a closed-cycle engine, propellant is used in the preburner to drive the pumps, and is then returned under pressure into the main CC to be burned with the rest of the fuel, which increases the fuel efficiency to over 95% (instead of dumping the preburner propellant overboard as in an open-cycle engine)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-07 18:49:35 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

>I am unfamiliar with the terms \"Open Cycle\" and \"Closed Cycle\"
>with regard to rocket engines.
>
>From the context I assume \"Open Cycle\" means a gas generator cycle
>which does not feed directly into the main combustion chamber but
>dumps exhaust gases either through a separage out let or someplace
>downstream in the main nozzle.

Open Cycle means anything that dumps the turbine gas separately, without
running it through the combustion chamber. That covers several different
cycles, although the gas-generator cycle is the commonest.

>I assume \"Closed Cycle\" refers to what I know as staged combustion
>or preburner cycles where a high pressure gas generator is exhausted
>to the main combustion chamber.

Closed Cycle means anything where the turbine gas goes into the chamber.
Again, there are more possibilities than staged combustion; for example,
the expander cycle is also a closed cycle.

(http://yarchive.net/space/rocket/engine_cycles.html)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-08 09:03:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

РД-214 построен по открытой схеме (без дожигания отработанного турбогаза) в виде четырехкамерного монобло-ка с единым ТНА.
(http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/r12/r12.htm)

Manufacturer Name: RD-214. Designer: Glushko. Developed in: 1955-59. Application: Kosmos B-1, (SS-4 Sandal) stage 1. Used on stages: Kosmos A-1, R-12. Used on launch vehicles: Kosmos 11K63, Kosmos 63S1, Kosmos 63S1M, R-12. Propellants: Nitric acid/Kerosene Thrust(vac): 74,350 kgf. Thrust(vac): 730.00 kN. Isp: 264 sec. Isp (sea level): 230 sec. Burn time: 140 sec. Mass Engine: 655 kg. Diameter: 2.4 m. Length: 1.5 m. Chambers: 4. Chamber Pressure: 43.60 bar. Area Ratio: 9.42. Oxidizer to Fuel Ratio: 3.97. Thrust to Weight Ratio: 161.25. Country: Russia. Status: Out of Production. First Flight: 1961. Last Flight: 1977. Flown: 166. References: 225 , 317 , 320 . Comments: Engine **Cycle: Open**. Feed Method: single turbopump driven by H2O2 gas generator feeding four fixed chambers. Ignition with propellant TG-02. Chamber Internal Diameter . 480 mm, throat diameter 176 mm. Diameter is per chamber.
(http://www.astronautix.com/engines/rd214.htm)

И еще полезная выдержка по схемам работы ЖРД:

В результате проведенных расчетов установлено, что из четырех схем:

без дожигания с выбросом восстановительного генераторного газа (открытая схема);
с дожиганием восстановительного генераторного газа (замкнутая схема);
с дожиганием окислительного генераторного газа (замкнутая схема);
с дожиганием восстановительного генераторного газа, включающая замкнутую ветвь для основного режима работы и разомкнутую ветвь (с использованием автономных турбин ТНА) для форсированного по тяге режима работы ЖРД (комбинированная схема)
Наибольший приоритет получила первая схема (открытая схема).
(http://www.mfti.ru/cgi-bin/MIPT/navigator.cgi?address=0-2-7-...

Николай прав насчет \"открытой/закрытой схемы\", но по-англ. наиболее употребительно \"cycle\", а не \"scheme\".

Regarding \"staged combustion\": it\'s a narrower term, usually when precision is required, they would write \"closed cycle, staged combustion\"; it seems to me (from the last exerpt above and the one in me previous note) that \"с дожиганием\" and \"closed cycle\" are the most general terms that cover several various schemes.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-08 09:19:30 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just had a look at Yuzhnoye Design Bureau Page (Nicolay\'s ref.)... Their English page does not sound very authentic to me, Russian is sticking out here and there, so I would take it with a (big) grain of salt when it comes to selecting the proper wording...

PS I am NOT trying to push my version, it\'s just that I happened to work for aerospace companies both in Russia and the US, and got rather familiar with the choice vocabulary on both sides.

Natalia Bearden
Local time: 05:40
PRO pts in pair: 87

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Nicolay: Look my Note added at 2002-03-09 01:23:56. Or I don't understand something.
1 day6 hrs
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14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
engine with staged combustion and traditional combustion


Explanation:
I'm pretty confident about "staged combustion"; you may prefer "non-staged combustion" to "traditional."

The NPO Energomash RD-171 is an engine "с дожиганием", and the first reference explaines a bit about that engine.

ProZ - for some reason - is not letting me put in the second ref - so to read a bit about "staged combustion," see:
http://www.iafastro.com/archives/pap2001/iaf_abstract/IAFS/S...

I am pretty certain this is not "afterburning," which applies to jet engines that gulp air.


    Reference: http://users.commkey.net/Braeunig/space/specs/zenit.htm
Alex Lane
Local time: 06:40
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 75
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Open scheme engine, ...


Explanation:
В советском ракетостроении употреблялись термины: 1. Двигатель (ЖРД) открытой схемы - когда дожига газов не призводилось. 2. ЖРД закрытой схемы - дожиг газов после турбогенератора.
На странице: http://www.milparade.ru/security/24/144.htm есть следующий текст: The RD-107 and RD-108 engines were designed according to a so-called open scheme: generator gas is exhausted outside of the turbine jet-propulsion.(Natalia Bearden, you are right, but scheme - not cycle.There arn't any cycles)
Подтверждения термина "ЖРД закрытой схемы", к сожалению, не нашел.
Возможно также употребление термина:
"engines with and without generator gas afterburning". См.http://www.yuzhnoye.kiev.ua/en/rck.htm#mal Yuzhnoye has designed 17 types of liquid-propellant rocket engines for various applications: ... engines with and without generator gas afterburning;
(Sorry, Yelena Makhnyova; Agree, Chekh)


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-08 01:58:01 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

См. также: http://www.aerospace.ru/English/partners/energomash/main.htm
In 1985 the RD-120 single-chamber engine with the turbopump propellant feed system was developed. The engine design is based on the generator oxidation gas after-burning scheme.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-08 02:22:34 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

См. также: http://www.aerospace.ru/English/partners/energomash/main.htm
In 1985 the RD-120 single-chamber engine with the turbopump propellant feed system was developed. The engine design is based on the generator oxidation gas after-burning scheme.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-09 01:23:56 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Но Natalia Bearden! Ведь в Вашей ссылке http://yarchive.net/space/rocket/engine_cycles.html, которую Вы даете в Note added at 2002-03-07 18:49:35 и в выдержке, слова из которой Вы приводите тут же, Michael P. Walsh <mp_walsh@pacbell.net> wrote: \" I am unfamiliar with the terms \"Open Cycle\" and \"Closed Cycle\" with regard to rocket engines.\"
I am unfamiliar - означает \"Я не знаком\", \"Я не знаю\", как я полагаю. И далее он: \"I assume\" - лишь предполагает. что могут означать слова: \"Open Cycle\" and \"Closed Cycle\".
А вот результаты исследований А.В.Баринова, Е.В.Лебединского из МФТИ для меня стали откровением. Я-то всегда полагал, что в ЖРД закрытой схемы топливо используется более эффективно, достигается большая удельная тяга и т.д. Во всяком случае в space rocket.


Nicolay
Local time: 15:40
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 9
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1 day2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
jet engine with afterburning and without afterburning


Explanation:
И еще.

Принимая во внимание то, что
Afterburning = 1. дожигание (топлива) 2. форсаж (за счет дожигания топлива), предлагаю и такой вариант:

Обозвать «двигатель с дожиганием» как «двигатель с форсажным режимом», а «двигатель без дожигания» - «двигатель с бесфорсажным режимом».

Тогда перевод будет выглядеть следующим образом:

двигатель с форсажным режимом = augmented (jet) engine

двигатель с бесфорсажным режимом = non-augmented (jet) engine


AYP
Local time: 15:40
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 90

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Nicolay: Только не форсажный режим! Это spase rocket engine, not aircraft.
16 hrs
  -> согласен
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