English translation: blind/closed/sealed-off perimeter bay
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Spanish to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Archaeology
Spanish term or phrase:crujía perimetral sin comunicación alguna
Talking about El Castillo at Chichén Itzá. I thought that communicación must be doorway or access way, but then it says that it can be entered from the north face, so I'm at a loss to how to express this.
Sobre las fachadas sur, este y oeste se abren vanos que, al igual que los demás, debieron tener dinteles de madera; observamos adentro una crujía perimetral sin comunicación alguna, cuyo acceso da desde la fachada norte.
It's like a maze inside. Look at the four entrances. There is one of them (I can only imagine it's the North one) that does not connect with the rest (a "blind" bay), and can only be entered via its own facade.
So, if the definition of crujía (bay) is
• Pasillo que da acceso a las zonas laterales de un edificio. Cada una de las partes principales en que se divide la planta de un edificio. http://mf0.op.upm.es/avec/glosario-arq.htm
• Es el espacio comprendido entre dos muros de carga. Pero también define cada una de las partes principales en las que se divide la planta de un edificio. http://www.regmurcia.com/servlet/s.Sl
• cada una de las diversas divisiones espaciales de un edificio por los muros u otros elementos de apoyo verticales o transversales. http://www.3darquitectura.info/index2.php
Then I think what it means is that the only "door" through which you could access this blind bay is the North facade.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2008-09-18 19:17:34 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Patricia, I understand your question; that's why I took so long to answer.
I started out thinking that crujía was only a space, so I was expecting like a corridor around everything.
What I gathered is that a "crujía" AND also "bay" in English MAY itself be an entrance. So what I think they're saying (to try to make some sense of it) is that the entrance itself is blind, or a dead end.
Thank you, everyone, for all the help, explanations, and even the guesses! I am still a bit unsure of which is the "right" answer, but Kironne's links and information were the most helpful, so pts. to Kironne! 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
I looked through my books for detailed sketches of the Castle but came up with the same diagram as Kironne. Here’s another couple of meanings for “crujía” = Espacio comprendido entre dos muros de carga and Pieza de paso de un edificio, desde la cual se accede a otras piezas o habitaciones situadas a ambos lados. And I can assure you that the only thing that surrounds it is the bay. Based on both additional meanings my suggestion would then again be the “enclosed chamber/vault” opened at the north, etc.
Monica: Did you see the diagrams that Kironne shared http://tinyurl.com/4zlqcw ? The problem is that the original talks about something that is perimetral, and all I see are the two bays, entered from the north (through 3 doorways formed by two columns). On the other 3 sides are entrances into a space that is open (I'm not sure that crujía applies to it, but if that term does apply, the space is open and accessed 3 different ways. I'm looking for detailed diagrams like that one since the text is fairly technical. I've found a ton of pictures and articles, but to see the details for each of the many buildings is the tough part. Thanks for your help!
Thank you! Can I ask how you're finding these diagrams? I've tried all sorts of things with no luck -- like "Temple of the Warriors" + chichen + map (or diagram).
the almendron link helps, too, as this passage was preceded by a description of the original structure. I can't access the second one. If you have time, could you please post a tinyurl? Thanks for saying it's perfect, but I'm still puzzled. THANK YOU AGAIN!!
IMHO, if the original is THAT confusing, even looking at a sketch of the place, then the translation should be as is. And BTW, I think your rendering is perfect. Voil`a.
Don't knock yourself out on my account, Kironne. You've helped immensely. I asked the publisher for the art (in the hope that there might be a photo), but with the long weekend in Mexico, I haven't had a response; they can also double check with the author on the real meaning. I HATE enredos like this one, too!
Patricia, that is confusing, indeed. Could it be that after they described it on the whole they went back to describing the "crujía grande"? It does say "adentro". Maybe it's a simplified drawing. I'm going to try to find some more. I HATE these things.
fwiw here is my rendering:The interior of the temple is more complex, since it has three doorways on the northern side and one each on the three remaining sides. The three northern entrances were formed by two serpent-like columns. Inside is a large bay, covered by a Mayan vault. This leads to another, deeper bay, with two central columns that had beams supporting two vaults. On the southern, eastern, and western faces are entranceways that like the rest, must have been topped by wooden lintels. Inside we can see a closed perimeter bay that can be accessed only on the northern side.
Kironne: The text describes what is in the diagram, until we get to the "observamos" and I don't see it: posee tres vanos sobre la fachada norte y uno en las tres restantes; ... Al interior existe una crujía grande, techada con bóveda maya, que conduce a otra más ancha con dos columnas centrales ... Sobre las fachadas sur, este y oeste se abren vanos ... observamos adentro una crujía perimetral sin comunicación alguna, cuyo acceso da desde la fachada norte.
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Answers
3 mins confidence:
outer/perimeter bay
Explanation: Ya lo contesté antes:
crujía perimetral - perimeter/outer bay ( translation glossary ... - [ Traducir esta página ](KudoZ) шпански на англиски translation of crujía perimetral : perimeter/outer bay [Rennovation of building in Southern Spain - Архитектура (Друго)].
mac.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/architecture/1959108-crujía_perimetral.html - 38k - En caché - Páginas similares
Smartranslators Local time: 20:06 Native speaker of: Spanish PRO pts in category: 32
Notes to answerer
Asker: Smarttrans: Thanks for the answer, but actually the part I am having trouble with is the "sin comunicación alguna". Any ideas for how to say the entire thing? Lisa may have it right "closed perimetric bay". What do you think?
Explanation: PDF] LIBRO UNACH NA BOLOM
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
así como las cuentas de jade halladas en Chichen Itzá (ver figura 13a). ...... extremo este del muro central permite la comunicación. entre ambas crujías. ... www.nabolom.org/BOLOM1.pdf - Páginas similares
Mónica Sauza Local time: 13:06 Native speaker of: Spanish PRO pts in category: 27
It's like a maze inside. Look at the four entrances. There is one of them (I can only imagine it's the North one) that does not connect with the rest (a "blind" bay), and can only be entered via its own facade.
So, if the definition of crujía (bay) is
• Pasillo que da acceso a las zonas laterales de un edificio. Cada una de las partes principales en que se divide la planta de un edificio. http://mf0.op.upm.es/avec/glosario-arq.htm
• Es el espacio comprendido entre dos muros de carga. Pero también define cada una de las partes principales en las que se divide la planta de un edificio. http://www.regmurcia.com/servlet/s.Sl
• cada una de las diversas divisiones espaciales de un edificio por los muros u otros elementos de apoyo verticales o transversales. http://www.3darquitectura.info/index2.php
Then I think what it means is that the only "door" through which you could access this blind bay is the North facade.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2008-09-18 19:17:34 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Patricia, I understand your question; that's why I took so long to answer.
I started out thinking that crujía was only a space, so I was expecting like a corridor around everything.
What I gathered is that a "crujía" AND also "bay" in English MAY itself be an entrance. So what I think they're saying (to try to make some sense of it) is that the entrance itself is blind, or a dead end.
kironne Chile Local time: 14:06 Native speaker of: English, Spanish PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you, everyone, for all the help, explanations, and even the guesses! I am still a bit unsure of which is the "right" answer, but Kironne's links and information were the most helpful, so pts. to Kironne!
Notes to answerer
Asker: I've just looked at the first link--I've spent days browsing the Internet in search of diagrams with almost no luck, so THANK YOU! I'll look at the others in a minute. However, although the diagram is great, and your suggestion was what I was leaning toward, I can't see a part that doesn't have entrances. Can you?
Asker: Oops. I just read the rest of your note, so you've answered my question, but I need to review the description because I thought that room with the entrance (the one at the bottom of the diagram) was actually a one of two bays and that the corridor somehow ran around it. Sorry to be so confused!
Asker: And thank you again for the excellent .pdf document! It's invaluable!
Asker: Kironne: I put a note above with the original text, and I tried to explain my lingering doubt there. Thank you again for all the help!
perimeter passageway showing/with no communication to other rooms/openings
Explanation: Rather than a space or area, (one of the meanings of crujía) it could refer to a passage or corridor (the other relevant meaning), as several answerers have suggested. This passageway has no communication to other rooms or openings and is probably a dead-end; it is accessible through the north facade. It might be a passageway bordered by walls like something you would find in a maze or labyrinth though probably serving a definite structural purpose. I suppose the only way to be sure of what it is, is by looking at a diagram of this place but I've been unable to find anything better than what you already have.
I think all the other answers are good and equally possible, mine is just another variant. Good luck!
Marian Martin Spain Local time: 20:06 Native speaker of: Spanish PRO pts in category: 24
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +1
