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Las piedras tienen en sí y para sí formas abstractas

English translation: stones, by their very nature, are comprised of abstract forms


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:Las piedras tienen en sí y para sí formas abstractas
English translation:stones, by their very nature, are comprised of abstract forms
Entered by: Jenni Lukac
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- Include in personal glossary

13:06 Aug 11, 2011
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / Exhibition catalogue, art criticism, collecting
Spanish term or phrase: Las piedras tienen en sí y para sí formas abstractas
Context:

Cuando era pequeña coleccionaba estos restos. Así fue cómo conseguí formar una maravillosa colección de piedras. Más tarde, en mis viajes a través de Sudamérica, iba con mi marido a las minas y me traía piedras. Mi camino hacia el arte abstracto pasa a través de las piedras. La naturaleza es abstracta. Las piedras tienen en sí y para sí formas abstractas. En una colección de piedras se aprende a reconocer formas. La aguamarina, por ejemplo, es diferente del cuarzo rosa.

From a quote by an art collector explaining why she collects.

I understand the basic meaning, but the "en sí y para sí" has got me thinking. I at least want to maintain the emphasis that the phrase gives to this idea of stones being intrinsically abstract (I think that's what she wants to say).

How would you put this "en sí y para sí"?

UK Eng
Thanks for your help in advance.
Kate Major
Spain
Local time: 03:53
stones, by their very nature, are comprised of abstract forms
Explanation:
An option.
Selected response from:

Jenni Lukac
Local time: 03:53
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +6stones, by their very nature, are comprised of abstract forms
Jenni Lukac
4 +3The stones are abstract forms in and of themselves.
fionn
4 +3Stones are intrinsically and irreducibly abstract.Robert Forstag
5Stones have abstract forms, in and of themselves
Adriana Díaz Enciso
Summary of reference entries provided
Jean-Paul Sartre
Steve Dreggs

  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
stones, by their very nature, are comprised of abstract forms


Explanation:
An option.

Jenni Lukac
Local time: 03:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 124
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Isamar: I like the flow you've given it!
52 mins
  -> Thanks very much. Hope all is well!

agree  Thayenga: Well phrased. Couldn't have said it any better. :)
1 hr
  -> Cheers and thanks, Thayenga.

agree  philgoddard: You don't really need to say "comprised of" - they ARE abstract forms.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Phil. I almost left it out, but then I thought the speaker might be intrigued by the juxtaposition of forms contained within some rocks. But if it doesn't fit her work, it could certainly be taken out.

agree  rich.
2 hrs
  -> Greetings and thanks, Rich.

agree  Gilla Evans: I would leave out "comprised of" too.
3 hrs
  -> Cheers and thanks, Gilla. I appreciate the feedback. I hope all is well.

agree  James A. Walsh: I was going to vote neutral because “La naturaleza es abstracta” is just before; but on 2nd thoughts, I think this would work nicely with a connector: “Nature is abstract. So/And stones, by their very nature...” Would also drop "comprised of". Good 1 ;-)
3 hrs
  -> Thanks for the vote and (as always) for the good comments, James.
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Stones are intrinsically and irreducibly abstract.


Explanation:
"Para sí" would literally man "for themselves," but such a notion and translation make no sense here. Instead, the whole phrase "en sí y para sí" strikes me as simply emphasizing the abstract nature of the stones.

Suerte.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2011-08-11 13:31:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Typo in explanation:

"Para sí" would literally mEan...

Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 21:53
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 103

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: This is good.
2 hrs
  -> Thank you, Phil!

agree  Gilla Evans: or just "intrinsically" by itself.
2 hrs
  -> Thank you, Gilla. Although I would say that "intrinsically and irreducibly" seems best to reflect the emphasis of "en si y para si."

agree  Eileen Banks: :)
3 hrs
  -> Thank you, Eileen.
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31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
The stones are abstract forms in and of themselves.


Explanation:
This is probably how I'd say it myself if I was looking to express this idea.

Example sentence(s):
  • "I approach all of my sculpture as pure forms in and of themselves in the hope that they may elicit a tactile response."
  • "it showcases mediums of communication, ie: screens, computers, paper, books, mp3s, human bodies, etc, as art forms in and of themselves."

    Reference: http://www.oconnellsculpture.com/about.html
    Reference: http://amypagnotta.blogspot.com/2011/03/great-hall-2nd-floor...
fionn
Mexico
Local time: 20:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  franglish: no need to look further :)
3 hrs
  -> thank you, franglish!

agree  Hugo: I was going to answer using 'in and of themselves', could not agree more
6 hrs
  -> thank you, Hugo!

agree  Altogringo: Dead on the phrase.
1 day14 hrs
  -> cheers, Alto!
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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Stones have abstract forms, in and of themselves


Explanation:
I agree with eliminating the article. "The stones" would seem to mean some particular stones. I would prefer "have abstract forms" instead of "are abstract forms" for, though the translation does not have to be literal, the original text is clearly saying "tienen" when in Spanish it would also make sense "son", and there is a difference between being a form and having a form.

Adriana Díaz Enciso
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
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Reference comments


8 mins
Reference: Jean-Paul Sartre

Reference information:
Jean-Paul Sartre talked about two types of being: "being-for-itself" and "being-in-itself". I hope this may help someone formulate a suitable answer.

Steve Dreggs
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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Changes made by editors
Aug 25, 2011 - Changes made by Jenni Lukac:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term => KOG term


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