English translation: or as records or notes on the expressive power
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Spanish to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / Museum exhibit - painting
Spanish term or phrase:ya como registros o apuntes sobre la expresividad
Context: an essay about 20th Century Mexican drawings. I'm not completely sure what they mean here by registros o apuntes. Is registros here "an account, documentation of something" and notes "a commentary", or am I way off? Thanks to all.
Por último, José Clemente Orozco y David Alfaro Siqueiros, los otros dos autores de grandes murales practicados en edificios públicos, dan cuenta de su producción más intimista, a partir de una selección de dibujos que se refieren a la libertad y fuerza de las líneas que conforman escenas simbólicas o abiertamente trágicas, ya como bocetos preparatorios de ideas que, posteriormente, plasmaron en los enormes formatos avalados por el Estado, ya como registros o apuntes sobre la expresividad que, eventualmente, pueden llegar a alcanzar detalles de cuerpos humanos, escenas de la vida cotidiana o vistas urbanas.
Explanation: In this case, I believe a simple, literal version is the best and most suitable.
There is no doubt at all that this refers to graphic, not written material. These are, explicitly, "dibujos", and "como" refers to their function: they are drawings that function either as ("ya como") preparatory sketches ("bocetos preparatorios") of ideas which the artists later expressed ("plasmaron") in their large-scale murals, or as ("ya como") "registros" or "notas".
I see no objection to the obvious, literal translations of these terms as "records" and "notes", and I do not think any alternative terms will do as well. A "registro" is a record taken of something; "registrar" is the act of recording. It is a visual record, capturing something seen for later consultation. "Apuntes", in the visual arts, will often be translated as "sketches" ("dibujo[s] tomado[s] del natural rápidamente", DRAE definition 3), and that is, of course, what these are, but it is not what they should be called here, because, as I say, "ya como" is not referring to what they actually are but to the function they perform. And that function is, simply and straighforwardly, notes. I don't think "commentary" is so suitable, because it implies a connected, multiple set of comments, articulating propositions of some sort, whereas these "apuntes" are simply responses to something that are jotted down in the heat of the moment: notes.
For "expresividad", I wouldn't actually rule out "expressiveness", but I prefer "expressive power" here. What is recorded or noted in these drawings is the capacity of bodies, scenes of daily life or urban landscapes to express things. All these subjects can surely be expressive: landscapes, including urban landscapes, can be intensely expressive. What about Monet, to take just one example?
What is expressed can often, if not always, be summed up as feelings or emotions. But "expresividad" doesn't strictly mean the feelings expressed; it means the capacity of these visual subjects to express those feelings: their expressive power.
My main doubt here is the preposition; I'm not sure whether it should be "records or notes on" or "records or notes of". Strictly one would say "records of", but "notes" could be followed by "of" or "on". I would finally opt for "on", not simply because it corresponds more literally to "sobre", but because it means that the expressiveness of the subjects has in some sense been processed by the artists' visual sensibilities and then set down in the "apuntes"; the notes are about, not simply of, the subjects.
"Eventualmente" could be translated "sometimes". But I would be inclined to say "may happen to possess", which would be closer to the strict sense of "eventualmente" as "casualmente".
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs (2012-01-03 23:29:53 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Hi, teju. Let me think about it for a few minutes; I'll get back to you soonest.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs (2012-01-03 23:48:52 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Personally I'd just change a few details (with all the usual caveats about how there's never one right way to do it):
"reveal the most intimate side of their work through a selection of drawings that highlight the freedom and strength of lines depicting symbolic or openly tragic scenes, either as studies for ideas they later expressed in large-scale compositions commissioned by the government, or as records or notes on the expressive power that details of human bodies, scenes from daily life or urban landscapes may happen to possess."
Hope this helps!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 hrs (2012-01-04 14:51:35 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I must admit I'm surprised by your client's reaction. I don't think it's difficult to grasp that "records or notes" is being used as a metaphor here, in the exactly the same way "registros o apuntes" is in the Spanish. I don't know whether it's worth trying to argue the point; if he didn't get it straight off, he would be probably be difficult to convince. Maybe it would be safer and easier just to put something like "rough sketches", although to my mind that would not really be adequate as a translation.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 20 hrs (2012-01-04 15:48:34 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I don't know whether it might help to have a few examples of how sketches can be described as metaphorical "records" or "notes":
"The sketches in these volumes were done quickly to catch the features of a passing scene, to note the form and rhythms of a tree, as preliminary experiments in handling complex visual material. As indicators of a part of Carr's process of making art, and as notes of several significant trips made during a turning point in her life as an artist, they are fascinating and illuminating."
Description of Seven Journeys: The Sketchbooks of Emily Carr, by Doris Shadbolt http://www.dmpibooks.com/book/seven-journeys
"A characteristic throughout has been the artist’s experimentation with space, at times using conventional perspective and at others dispensing with this, treating the canvas surface as a pictorial field. In the most abstract of these, the objects become less easily identifiable and instead function as notes of form and colour contained within an overall design." http://www.nationalgalleries.org/whatson/exhibitions/elizabe...
"This paper explores the kinds of information which can be gathered from ledger art, discussing the images both as vital documents of their creators and users and as records of specific events and portraits of known protagonists." http://www.jstor.org/pss/3536977
Maybe you could meet the objection halfway by putting something like "as (rough) sketches recording the expressive power", or if the word "recording" could be mistaken for a reference to sound, perhaps "as (rough) sketches providing a record of...".
I have a suspicion based on experience that the author was simply looking for alternatives to repeating "bocetos" to describe smaller, less complete sketches and chose "registros y apuntes." In 1986 Lucienne Bloch wrote a really interesting article for Art in America about Diego Rivera's work in the U.S. She writes: "The next day, just before he went to paint, he drew his first conception of the RCA mural. It was on a scrap of Wardell Hotel stationery, and it was extremely simple: just two ellipses crossing, with a rough drawing of Man at the Crossroads in the center." I imagine that is sort of thing the author was referring to with "registros y apuntes, but the same article makes this interesting comment: "But on the day Diego was to begin the scene, a violent demonstration took place on Wall Street in desperate response to the conditions of the Depression: Ben Shahn brought in newspaper photos showing the commotion, and Diego painted the scene directly from those clippings, with the police on their horses holding clubs, ready to strike," so "registros y apuntes" may have been a stab at describing a wider range of source material. http://www.luciennebloch.com/pdfs/america.pdf
No need to apologize Jenni, I really appreciate your help. As I mentioned to Charles below, I actually sent an email to my client, even though he's not the author. I copied the whole paragraph and asked him if the part that mentions "records and notes" made sense. He said "it would be hard to understand". Thanks again for your invaluable input.
I'm sorry that I wasn't able to respond earlier. If you can't consult with the author, I think you have to go with your gut instincts as a translator and capture the essence of what is given in the Spanish. Whatever words you decide to use for "registros y apuntes," I think the author wishes to say that the artists used them to capture detalles of what they saw around them. This makes sense if you think of the many scraps of paper filled with just the wing of a bird, a hand, a smile, a gesture, an arch, light and shadow that artists accumulate as detalles to refer to when they flesh out larger works.
I'm afraid I don't have the luxury to ask the author, this came from another museum, not my client. I read your answer and I don't quite get where you get "lively/expressive sketches", I'm understanding something completely different than you, as you can see on my draft. Are you saying I'm completely mistaken on my interpretation? Thanks again for lending me a hand with this.
Alfaro Siqueiros wrote a lot (I'm thinking primarily of El Machete), but I don't think that José Clemente Orozco was as involved with writing (I may be wrong). All of the great Mexican muralists sketched a great deal. They were always on the lookout for the right faces for their vast murals. I like your "conjured up" and "evoked," but keeping in mind what follows ("pueden alcanzar detalles de cuerpos humanos..."), I can't help thinking that the majority of these "registros o apuntes" were visual in nature, perhaps very crude sketches or even doodles that served as mental prompts for a fuller expression further on. If you can query the author on this one, I suggest that you do it. Please report back if you get an answer. It's an interesting topic!
What about translating expresividad as emotions/feelings? Here's my draft so far: ...either as a record or commentary of the emotions often conjured up/evoked by the details of human bodies/figures, everyday life scenes or urban landscapes.
I think you're on the right lines - perhaps "records or commentaries."
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
14 mins confidence:
or in the form of notes and lively/expressive sketches
Explanation: One option. You have to be very careful with translating expresividad as expressiveness here as the author mentions landscape as well as figures. "Registros and apuntes" could both be meant as visual, in which case "studies and sketches" or "vignettes and sketches" might work better.
Jenni Lukac Local time: 03:54 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 124
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for answering Jenni. The way I read this, expresividad here means feelings or emotions. RAE expresivo: que manifiesta con gran viveza lo que siente o piensa. Eventualmente means casualmente, sometimes. Please see my draft above, I would appreciate your opinion.
Asker: I wish I could split the points, thank you so very much for all the time you took to research this, I appreciate it very much!
Explanation: In this case, I believe a simple, literal version is the best and most suitable.
There is no doubt at all that this refers to graphic, not written material. These are, explicitly, "dibujos", and "como" refers to their function: they are drawings that function either as ("ya como") preparatory sketches ("bocetos preparatorios") of ideas which the artists later expressed ("plasmaron") in their large-scale murals, or as ("ya como") "registros" or "notas".
I see no objection to the obvious, literal translations of these terms as "records" and "notes", and I do not think any alternative terms will do as well. A "registro" is a record taken of something; "registrar" is the act of recording. It is a visual record, capturing something seen for later consultation. "Apuntes", in the visual arts, will often be translated as "sketches" ("dibujo[s] tomado[s] del natural rápidamente", DRAE definition 3), and that is, of course, what these are, but it is not what they should be called here, because, as I say, "ya como" is not referring to what they actually are but to the function they perform. And that function is, simply and straighforwardly, notes. I don't think "commentary" is so suitable, because it implies a connected, multiple set of comments, articulating propositions of some sort, whereas these "apuntes" are simply responses to something that are jotted down in the heat of the moment: notes.
For "expresividad", I wouldn't actually rule out "expressiveness", but I prefer "expressive power" here. What is recorded or noted in these drawings is the capacity of bodies, scenes of daily life or urban landscapes to express things. All these subjects can surely be expressive: landscapes, including urban landscapes, can be intensely expressive. What about Monet, to take just one example?
What is expressed can often, if not always, be summed up as feelings or emotions. But "expresividad" doesn't strictly mean the feelings expressed; it means the capacity of these visual subjects to express those feelings: their expressive power.
My main doubt here is the preposition; I'm not sure whether it should be "records or notes on" or "records or notes of". Strictly one would say "records of", but "notes" could be followed by "of" or "on". I would finally opt for "on", not simply because it corresponds more literally to "sobre", but because it means that the expressiveness of the subjects has in some sense been processed by the artists' visual sensibilities and then set down in the "apuntes"; the notes are about, not simply of, the subjects.
"Eventualmente" could be translated "sometimes". But I would be inclined to say "may happen to possess", which would be closer to the strict sense of "eventualmente" as "casualmente".
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs (2012-01-03 23:29:53 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Hi, teju. Let me think about it for a few minutes; I'll get back to you soonest.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs (2012-01-03 23:48:52 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Personally I'd just change a few details (with all the usual caveats about how there's never one right way to do it):
"reveal the most intimate side of their work through a selection of drawings that highlight the freedom and strength of lines depicting symbolic or openly tragic scenes, either as studies for ideas they later expressed in large-scale compositions commissioned by the government, or as records or notes on the expressive power that details of human bodies, scenes from daily life or urban landscapes may happen to possess."
Hope this helps!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 hrs (2012-01-04 14:51:35 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I must admit I'm surprised by your client's reaction. I don't think it's difficult to grasp that "records or notes" is being used as a metaphor here, in the exactly the same way "registros o apuntes" is in the Spanish. I don't know whether it's worth trying to argue the point; if he didn't get it straight off, he would be probably be difficult to convince. Maybe it would be safer and easier just to put something like "rough sketches", although to my mind that would not really be adequate as a translation.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 20 hrs (2012-01-04 15:48:34 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I don't know whether it might help to have a few examples of how sketches can be described as metaphorical "records" or "notes":
"The sketches in these volumes were done quickly to catch the features of a passing scene, to note the form and rhythms of a tree, as preliminary experiments in handling complex visual material. As indicators of a part of Carr's process of making art, and as notes of several significant trips made during a turning point in her life as an artist, they are fascinating and illuminating."
Description of Seven Journeys: The Sketchbooks of Emily Carr, by Doris Shadbolt http://www.dmpibooks.com/book/seven-journeys
"A characteristic throughout has been the artist’s experimentation with space, at times using conventional perspective and at others dispensing with this, treating the canvas surface as a pictorial field. In the most abstract of these, the objects become less easily identifiable and instead function as notes of form and colour contained within an overall design." http://www.nationalgalleries.org/whatson/exhibitions/elizabe...
"This paper explores the kinds of information which can be gathered from ledger art, discussing the images both as vital documents of their creators and users and as records of specific events and portraits of known protagonists." http://www.jstor.org/pss/3536977
Maybe you could meet the objection halfway by putting something like "as (rough) sketches recording the expressive power", or if the word "recording" could be mistaken for a reference to sound, perhaps "as (rough) sketches providing a record of...".
Charles Davis Local time: 03:54 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 52
Grading comment
Fantastic reasoning and resources to back up your interpretation. Kudos, Charles!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Fantastic analysis of the piece! I agree with your assessment, I don't know how to thank you, you hit it out of the park!
Asker: How's this:
show a more intimate art through a selection of drawings featuring the freedom and strength of lines depicting symbolic or openly tragic scenarios, either as studies for ideas they later expressed in large format commissioned by the government, or as records or notes on the expressive power they may happen to posses of details of human bodies, scenes from daily life or urban landscapes.
Asker: It helps a lot, thanks again Charles. I ended up sending an email to my client after all. While he didn't write the essay, I wanted his opinion on my rough draft. This is what he wrote: As far as "records and notes" that's somewhat hard to understand. It seems to me they are referring to sketches as indicated above with the word "studies" as well as preliminary drawings, not records or notes. All of the art displayed is visual, not literary.
Back to the drawing board with "records and notes". This art historian didn't like these terms. Ugh! I could either change it or explain to him why I chose those two terms. What bothers me it's the fact he thinks they are confusing.
Asker: I actually explained to my client the reasoning behind keeping the translation more literal and he understood the explanation. I think what you proposed this last time is a good compromise, "as rough sketches to record the expressive power"... Thanks again Charles.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +1
