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con todo el juego que ha dado

English translation: ...with all that it entails

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:con todo el juego que ha dado
English translation:...with all that it entails
Entered by: Carol Gullidge
Options:
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- Include in personal glossary

10:00 Apr 6, 2008
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Cinema, Film, TV, Drama / Iranian cinema & feminism
Spanish term or phrase: con todo el juego que ha dado
El velo no es solo un “símbolo”, es la perfecta proyección visual (una metáfora natural) de la sujeción de la mujer en la sociedad islámica; tapa, además, el rostro (del cuerpo, ni hablamos) de las actrices, *** con todo el juego que ha dado *** (según sintetizó Laura Mulvey en un artículo famoso) ese dispositivo voyeurista del cine según el cual la cámara masculina y/o fálica se aplica sobre el espectáculo del despliegue de la mujer.

My current translation is as follows, but I am slightly confused as the 1st and 2nd parts of the sentence seem to be contradictory (i.e. if the camera is voyeuristic, why is covering women up a form of subjection, surely it is rather protection?):

The veil is not only a ‘symbol’, it is the perfect visual projection of (a natural metaphor for) the subjection of women in Islamic society; it covers the actresses faces (not to mention their bodies), along with all the possibilities of (according to Laura Mulvey’s summary in a famous article) the voyeuristic device used in the cinema by which the masculine and/or phallic camera is applied to the spectacle of the female display.

I wonder if I have correctly interpreted the phrase: 'con todo el juego que ha dado' in this context?
Cath St Clair
Spain
Local time: 08:24
...with this voyeuristic device and all that it entails
Explanation:
I think your version is actually pretty good, and would only change "possibilities of" to possibilities stemming from". That at least is the meaning as I understand it, although there are of course many ways of saying this - I'm sure you can think of a few variations, mixing and matching some of the following, or more of your own.


with all the possibilities stemming from...

with all that ... involves

...with all/everything that this voyeuristic device entails

... ... brings with it

... ... conjures up

... with this voyeuristic device and all/everything that goes with it

..with the whole gamut ... that this... engenders

.... ... brings with it

... that this... involves

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2008-04-06 10:32:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sorry - got carried away with "brings with it" - mentioned twice!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2008-04-14 11:00:12 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

thanks Cath, any time!

I see you're going to the powwow in Granada (wish I were still there!). I'm trying to persuade some of my (non-ProZ, so far) translator friends to register and join you...
Selected response from:

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:24
Grading comment
Thanks, Carol
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3...with this voyeuristic device and all that it entails
Carol Gullidge
3with all the voyeuristic possibilities
Cecilia Gowar
3with all the fantasies this ... generatesYasser El Helw
3along with the coding inherent in ...Bubo Coromandus


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
along with the coding inherent in ...


Explanation:
the Wikipedia article says that female Hollywood characters were "coded" (with be-looked-at-ness); so you could take "juego" as being the "coding".

Regarding your question about the contradictory nature of the article, I think this arises because the writer is attempting to summarize in a few words what were actually two different concepts - the concept of voyeurism and the concept of the woman as madonna - and here he is actually referring to the woman with her veil as the "madonna" (like the Virgin Mary), even though he mentions the "voyeurism". These two concepts are explained in the Wiki article:

"Mulvey suggests that there were two distinct modes of the male gaze of this era: "voyeuristic" (i.e. seeing women as 'whores') and "fetishistic" (i.e. seeing women as 'madonnas')."

Well, I don't think you need to be concerned about the apparent contradiction, because really to avoid it the author would have had to write at greater length, and he/she was probably trying to be brief.

Bubo Coromandus
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 79
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
with all the fantasies this ... generates


Explanation:
Just another option!

Yasser El Helw
Local time: 09:24
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
with all the voyeuristic possibilities


Explanation:
...which cinema plays on. (or cinema has to offer).

Otra sugerencia, según interpreto el original. De todos modos, creo que la versión española está mal escrita y los conceptos del ensayo mal traducidos. El voyerismo está definido no como un dispositivo (device) sino como un mecanismo (mechanism).
Te paso el enlace aquí debajo. Suerte!



    Reference: http://imlportfolio.usc.edu/ctcs505/mulveyVisualPleasureNarr...
Cecilia Gowar
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
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30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
...with this voyeuristic device and all that it entails


Explanation:
I think your version is actually pretty good, and would only change "possibilities of" to possibilities stemming from". That at least is the meaning as I understand it, although there are of course many ways of saying this - I'm sure you can think of a few variations, mixing and matching some of the following, or more of your own.


with all the possibilities stemming from...

with all that ... involves

...with all/everything that this voyeuristic device entails

... ... brings with it

... ... conjures up

... with this voyeuristic device and all/everything that goes with it

..with the whole gamut ... that this... engenders

.... ... brings with it

... that this... involves

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2008-04-06 10:32:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sorry - got carried away with "brings with it" - mentioned twice!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2008-04-14 11:00:12 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

thanks Cath, any time!

I see you're going to the powwow in Granada (wish I were still there!). I'm trying to persuade some of my (non-ProZ, so far) translator friends to register and join you...

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:24
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 34
Grading comment
Thanks, Carol

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Noni Gilbert: Splendid stuff. What are we all doing here on a sunny (at least here) Sunday morning.
12 mins
  -> many thanks Noni! My excuse it that I've just fiinished my cookery book, and it's snowing here! (brrrrrh!)

agree  Egmont
1 hr
  -> thanks AVRVM!

agree  De Novi
3 days7 hrs
  -> thanks Zanne!
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Changes made by editors
Apr 28, 2008 - Changes made by Carol Gullidge:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term » KOG term


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