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Ciudadano [in this context]

English translation: levae it out

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16:52 Jul 7, 2007
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics / Formal Letter [Venezuela]
Spanish term or phrase: Ciudadano [in this context]
I'm translating a series of official letters from Venezuela in which the parties refer to one another as "el Ciudadano Ministro" and "el Ciudadano Presidente", etc.

Would it be correct to translate "Ciudadano" as "Honorable" in this context?

Here's a full sentence from one of the letters:

"En esta misma comunicación, se encuentra Oficio No. XXX del Ciudadano Ministro con las instrucciones específicas sobre el tema."

Thanks!
John Milan
United States
Local time: 02:26
English translation:levae it out
Explanation:
Cuando traduzco este tipo de documentos, no incluyo la palabra "ciudadano". En este caso, sólo coloca Minister.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2007-07-07 17:06:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

En Venezuela, se usa mucho este tipo de redacción, incluso con gente que no tiene cargos públicos:

El ciudadano Pedro Pérez = Pedro Pérez, Mr. Pedro Pérez

el ciudadano Presidente de la República = the President of teh Republic

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2007-07-07 17:07:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Si fuera dirigido al ministro, quizás consideraría colocar un "honorable" o algo similar delante. Sin embargo, en este caso, es un documento redactado en tercera persona.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2007-07-07 17:08:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perdón por los errores de tipeo. Quise poner "leave it out"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2007-07-07 17:31:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Este tipo de redacción no es nueva. Desde que tengo uso de razón, los documentos en Venezuela usan este tipo de fórmula. Por ejemplo, en los títulos universitarios, se usa "ciudadano bachiller" y en inglés no se coloca ni lo uno, ni lo otro
Selected response from:

Yvonne Becker
Local time: 02:26
Grading comment
Thanks!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +8levae it out
Yvonne Becker
5 +4Citizen Minister / Citizen President
Laura Carrizo
4Honorable(Hon'ble)
Ashok Pipal
4Dignitary
Alan Corbo, CT


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Dignitary


Explanation:
Dignitary: someone who has an important official position, e.g. "Visiting Dignitaries" (as defined by Macmillan English Dictionary for Advanced Learnrs)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2007-07-07 17:00:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hope it helps. Good luck!!!

Alan Corbo, CT
Uruguay
Local time: 03:26
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Honorable(Hon'ble)


Explanation:
There doesn't seem to exist any other English equivalent than Hon'ble(At least as far as my knowledge goes)

Ashok Pipal
Local time: 11:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marina Herrera: You're right. You can visit the pages of any newspaper talking about senators, governors and that's the adjective used.
1 hr
  -> Thanks Marina!

disagree  Juan Jacob: On the contrary: Ciudadano means nobody is honorable or not. Everybody is equal.
7 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Citizen Minister / Citizen President


Explanation:
Good that you provided as context that this is about Venezuela, as this is very important to the meaning of your phrase.
Remember that Venezuela has now a populist government and what these "citizen minister" and "citizen president" mean is that "they are citizens invested with these ranks, but still "workers" as any other citizen...", like in other times in Russia it could have been Comrade President, or in Argentina's Peron's times "Compañero Presidente".
I hope this is useful to you.

Laura Carrizo
Argentina
Local time: 03:26
Works in field
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  R-i-c-h-a-r-d: Exactly!!!
2 mins

neutral  Yvonne Becker: Esta expresión no tiene que ver con el actual gobierno; en Venezuela, desde que tengo uso de razón se redactan los documentos con este tipo de expresión
19 mins

agree  Henry Hinds: Used in Mexico also, applicable to anyone.
20 mins

agree  Salloz: Como lo comenta Henry, en México se dice Ciudadano Presidente, Ciudadano Juez, etc. Hasta donde sé, viene de la Revolución Francesa y fue adoptado por muchas naciones de América Latina luego de la Independencia.
1 hr

neutral  Juan Jacob: Con Yvonne, nada tiene que ver con el contexto político venezolano. Es un término acuñado después de la Independencia en muchos países latinoamericanos. Hoy no es más que un formulismo. Citizen XXX sería incomprensible para un angloparlante.
7 hrs

agree  kategold
1 day10 hrs
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +8
levae it out


Explanation:
Cuando traduzco este tipo de documentos, no incluyo la palabra "ciudadano". En este caso, sólo coloca Minister.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2007-07-07 17:06:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

En Venezuela, se usa mucho este tipo de redacción, incluso con gente que no tiene cargos públicos:

El ciudadano Pedro Pérez = Pedro Pérez, Mr. Pedro Pérez

el ciudadano Presidente de la República = the President of teh Republic

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2007-07-07 17:07:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Si fuera dirigido al ministro, quizás consideraría colocar un "honorable" o algo similar delante. Sin embargo, en este caso, es un documento redactado en tercera persona.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2007-07-07 17:08:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perdón por los errores de tipeo. Quise poner "leave it out"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2007-07-07 17:31:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Este tipo de redacción no es nueva. Desde que tengo uso de razón, los documentos en Venezuela usan este tipo de fórmula. Por ejemplo, en los títulos universitarios, se usa "ciudadano bachiller" y en inglés no se coloca ni lo uno, ni lo otro

Yvonne Becker
Local time: 02:26
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
Thanks!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Daniel Burns
17 mins
  -> Gracias

agree  Robert Copeland
20 mins
  -> Gracias

agree  Patricia Rosas
40 mins
  -> Gracias

agree  xxxLia Fail: I think you have to consider the political tradition ebhind its use, as also that of honourable and similar titles. The most neutral wd be to exclude it as YB suggests
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Lia

agree  silviantonia
1 hr
  -> Muchas gracias

agree  liz askew
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Liz

agree  Mónica Algazi
4 hrs
  -> Gracias

agree  Juan Jacob: Absolutamente de acuerdo. Se ha preguntado muchísimas veces para México donde se usa mucho. Es un puro formalismo republicanoide y rancio. Todos somos ciudadanos, que yo sepa, además.
6 hrs
  -> Muchas gracias
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