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con tan justos titulos como cada una de las demás

English translation: with equally just/fair-minded/equitable convictions as those of all others


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00:46 Feb 6, 2012
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History / Yrigoyen
Spanish term or phrase: con tan justos titulos como cada una de las demás
Hola:

Esta cita de Yrigoyen dice así: "La Nación Argentina,... nacida a la existencia con tan justos títulos como cada una de las demás, no está con nadie, contra nadie, sino con todas para el bien de todos. Ha asistido al Congreso sin prejuicios ni inclinaciones ...

Mil gracias
susiq
English translation:with equally just/fair-minded/equitable convictions as those of all others
Explanation:
One option.

The Argentine nation came into being with equally just/fair-minded/equitable convictions as those of all others; neither for nor against any one nation, but rather in favour of the common good of all

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2012-02-06 08:59:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


Having read Charles' explanation, it seems to refer to "justos títulos territoriales", but in this case I wonder if Yrigoyen's discourse refers to "justos títulos personales", rather than "sovereignty", especially taking into account that he mentions, in the same sentence, things such as "no está con nadie, contra nadie" and being for "el bien de todos" y "sin prejuicios" etc. suggesting to my mind, qualities such as "fair-mindedness" or "equality" and protections of rights, etc.

I wouldn't presume that my wording is by any means perfect, but...

¿Cúales eran los JUSTOS TÍTULOS PERSONALES?)

"... justificaciones morales sobre la condición de los naturales de esas tierras."
"En el testamento, la reina Isabel la Católica, mandó preocuparse especialmente por la protección y la cristianización de los naturales de las Indias."
"...en contra de los abusos a que se sometía a los indígenas."

http://www.gabrielbernat.es/espana/titulos/html/jtp.html

and

B. Sobre los "justos títulos personales". Los derechos de los indígenas
...

"Esta voz, dijo él, que todos estáis en pecado mortal y en él vivís y morís, por la crueldad y tiranía que usáis con estas inocentes gentes. Decid, ¿con qué derecho y con qué justicia tenéis en tan cruel y horrible servidumbre a estos indios?
"¿Con qué autoridad habéis hecho tan detestables guerras a estas gentes que estaban en sus tierras mansas y pacíficas, donde tan infinitas de ellas, con muertes y estragos nunca oídos, habéis consumido?"
http://hablemosdehistorias.blogspot.com/2010/12/la-polemica-...

Whereas:

¿Cúales eran los JUSTOS TITULOS TERRITORIALES?)

El Descubrimiento: Reconocido como un título válido para adquirir territorios.
La Ocupación: Modo de adquirir el dominio de los bienes del Derecho Civil.
La Conquista: Título bélico en virtud del cual el vencedor reclama las tierras del vencido.
La Guerra Justa: Guerra realizada contra infieles o quienes realizasen prácticas irreligiosas.
La Donación, que solicitan al Papa en virtud de su condición de príncipes cristianos (habían obtenido el título de Católicos por su defensa de la fe en la guerra contra los moros de Granada).

http://www.gabrielbernat.es/espana/titulos/html/jtp.html
Selected response from:

rich.
Mexico
Local time: 21:30
Grading comment
Thanks!! it was of great help
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1with equally just/fair-minded/equitable convictions as those of all others
rich.
4endowed with sovereignty as legitimate as that of any other [nation]Charles Davis
3with the same titles as all of the others
Erika Di Dio
3came into being with the same birthrights as all the others.
Agnes Grand Fay
3born with as just claims to existence as any other
Deborah Lockett


  

Answers


6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
came into being with the same birthrights as all the others.


Explanation:
If "títulos" to be understood as "qualifications,titles".
Have chosen "birthrights"to reprise the theme of "nacida".

Agnes Grand Fay
Local time: 04:30
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
endowed with sovereignty as legitimate as that of any other [nation]


Explanation:
The background to this is Argentina's withdrawal from the League of Nations in 1920. Yrigoyen is referring to Argentina's independence. "Justos títulos" is a significant expression which he must be using deliberately: it is the term used to refer to what was called (in English) Spain's "legitimate dominion" over its American colonies, a concept elaborated by the Spanish jurist Francisco de Vitoria in the sixteenth century, on the basis of the theory of ius gentium ("law of peoples"). So here Yrigoyen is suggesting that post-colonial Argentina has legitimate self-dominion. One could call it that, but the standard English term for what he's referring to is "sovereignty": Argentina is a sovereign nation, and will do what it decides to do; it is not beholden to any other nation. It could be reduced to "as sovereign as any other [nation]", but I would include "legitimate" for "justos", even though the result is a bit more cumbersome.

"Los Justos Títulos de dominio del Rey de España (la Monarquía Hispánica o Monarquía Católica) sobre el Nuevo Mundo son un concepto ideológico expresado jurídica y teológicamente a través de sucesivas reuniones de teólgos y juristas"
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justos_Títulos

"Sovereignty is the quality of having supreme, independent authority over a geographic area, such as a territory"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2012-02-06 08:13:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Desarrolla ocho Justos Títulos para justificar la presencia de los españoles en América. Son títulos legítimos de conquista. [...]
Estos Justos Títulos fueron recogidos en las leyes de conquista en el reinado de Felipe II para la conquista y reinado de nuevos territorios."
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_de_Vitoria#Justos_T.C...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2012-02-06 08:38:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perhaps in fact you could reduce it to "endowed with sovereignty as legitimate as any other"; it is a bit neater, though less strictly accurate.

Charles Davis
Local time: 04:30
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 56
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40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
with equally just/fair-minded/equitable convictions as those of all others


Explanation:
One option.

The Argentine nation came into being with equally just/fair-minded/equitable convictions as those of all others; neither for nor against any one nation, but rather in favour of the common good of all

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2012-02-06 08:59:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


Having read Charles' explanation, it seems to refer to "justos títulos territoriales", but in this case I wonder if Yrigoyen's discourse refers to "justos títulos personales", rather than "sovereignty", especially taking into account that he mentions, in the same sentence, things such as "no está con nadie, contra nadie" and being for "el bien de todos" y "sin prejuicios" etc. suggesting to my mind, qualities such as "fair-mindedness" or "equality" and protections of rights, etc.

I wouldn't presume that my wording is by any means perfect, but...

¿Cúales eran los JUSTOS TÍTULOS PERSONALES?)

"... justificaciones morales sobre la condición de los naturales de esas tierras."
"En el testamento, la reina Isabel la Católica, mandó preocuparse especialmente por la protección y la cristianización de los naturales de las Indias."
"...en contra de los abusos a que se sometía a los indígenas."

http://www.gabrielbernat.es/espana/titulos/html/jtp.html

and

B. Sobre los "justos títulos personales". Los derechos de los indígenas
...

"Esta voz, dijo él, que todos estáis en pecado mortal y en él vivís y morís, por la crueldad y tiranía que usáis con estas inocentes gentes. Decid, ¿con qué derecho y con qué justicia tenéis en tan cruel y horrible servidumbre a estos indios?
"¿Con qué autoridad habéis hecho tan detestables guerras a estas gentes que estaban en sus tierras mansas y pacíficas, donde tan infinitas de ellas, con muertes y estragos nunca oídos, habéis consumido?"
http://hablemosdehistorias.blogspot.com/2010/12/la-polemica-...

Whereas:

¿Cúales eran los JUSTOS TITULOS TERRITORIALES?)

El Descubrimiento: Reconocido como un título válido para adquirir territorios.
La Ocupación: Modo de adquirir el dominio de los bienes del Derecho Civil.
La Conquista: Título bélico en virtud del cual el vencedor reclama las tierras del vencido.
La Guerra Justa: Guerra realizada contra infieles o quienes realizasen prácticas irreligiosas.
La Donación, que solicitan al Papa en virtud de su condición de príncipes cristianos (habían obtenido el título de Católicos por su defensa de la fe en la guerra contra los moros de Granada).

http://www.gabrielbernat.es/espana/titulos/html/jtp.html


rich.
Mexico
Local time: 21:30
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thanks!! it was of great help
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks! it is of great help


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Hollywood: sounds ok to me Rich ... trying to get an English translation of Yrigoyen's speech but so far nothing doing lol
1 hr
  -> Me neither! Thanks, David
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
born with as just claims to existence as any other


Explanation:
as appears in the third column of this newspaper report; I think it's a very good interpretation in English of "títulos" http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19210201&id=PY...

Deborah Lockett
Local time: 03:30
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 82
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
with the same titles as all of the others


Explanation:
that's what i think

Erika Di Dio
Local time: 04:30
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
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