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Spanish to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Philosophy / Government, politics
Spanish term or phrase:poderes factuales
I'm translating an essay on the intellectual condition in the Spanish Antilles, and I'm stuck on how to translate this phrase. Here's the context (the quotations are from Edward Said's Representations of the Intellectual):
Según Said, el intelectual por antonomasia “le habla claro al poder” desde una postura crítica, por lo que está “dispuesto a mantener una disputa [...] con todos los guardianes de la visión o el texto sagrados”. Por eso considera que el intelectual debe operar desde una posición “laica” o “secular”, es decir, no comprometida con ningún dogma o fe religiosa, política o de cualquier otra índole. Incluso, aboga por la libertad de los intelectuales respecto de los “sistemas” y los “métodos” a partir de los cuales se genera el saber, los que, al igual que los **poderes factuales,** aprisionan al intelectual, convirtiéndolo en “una institución” o “en una especie de autómata”.
The author is Puerto Rican, but his vocabulary frequently shows strong influences from the Dominican Republic and Mexico. I was puzzled by "factual" as opposed to "fáctico," and a quick Google search shows several hits for "poderes factuales" coming from Mexico.
Would this be "de facto powers"? I'm concerned about the connotation of "unofficial" or "extraofficial," but perhaps that connotation is merely my own perception. My current placemarker translation is "actual powers" and I have also considered "ruling powers," or copping out with the literal "factual powers."
Explanation: When I saw this, I had a hunch which eventually led me to (what else) an earlier Proz discussion: Con el termino el autor intenta referirse a todas las fuentes de poder/presión además de las autoridades politicas/policiales/militares/etc. - digase corporaciones, organizaciones criminales, etc. http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=741521>&g... I would say that poderes factuales is a version of poderes facticos: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/poetry_literatu... : File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
We have substantial literature explore these two outlying positions. ... way of measuring **de facto power**. Their concepts of what that might be is rather ...
LIBRARYThis article summarizes the recent literature on prediction markets, ... limits on the exercise of **de facto power** by the elite in democracy or for costs of ...
In the Power of the Spirit... a double status contradiction: as holders of a **de facto power** which is not ... The cultured class should be reached by a literature closer to that of ...
I've selected your answer twice now, and written a lengthy comment. Each time I've lost my Internet connection before I could post. Sorry! Thanks for your research and comments. I think you're right, and I should just leave it at "de facto powers," despite my nagging doubts. My author is quite bilingual, so he can make the final decision. I appreciate your help. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Please excuse the delay in responding to your concern - I'm working against a deadline. One solution to your problem could be querying the author or editor about the possibility of adding an explanation or adjective that would specify what the author intends to say (if it isn't already made explicit by the surrounding text), such as "both establishment de facto powers and those that operate on the margins of XXX," "institutional and non-institutional de facto powers," "establishment and non-establishment de facto powers," etc. I think you are hunting for an extra leg on the cat, but if the cat needs it to walk, I think there are ways of adding supplementary information here.
Thanks for your answer and the references. I think your answer is right, but I'm still concerned that using "de facto" will give the impression that the reference is only to informal, extraofficial, or even illegitimate powers. Someone in your WordReference link wrote, "According to Wikipedia (in spanish) 'Poder fáctico es el que se ejerce al margen de los cauces formales.'" I think my author means both formal (official, legitimate) powers and the others. Am I just hunting for an extra leg on the cat, or is my concern...well, legitimate?
A member of another word reference forum suggested "the powers that be," but that seems a bit out of place to me here. If the discussion might be of interest, it can be found at: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1158028
I realize that I didn't cite the source of the explanation of "poderes factuales" I provided in my answer, which was http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=74152. In any case, I recognize that this is not a highly authoritative source, although this person seems to have had no doubt about the meaning and the context seems to fit.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
14 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
defacto powers
Explanation: When I saw this, I had a hunch which eventually led me to (what else) an earlier Proz discussion: Con el termino el autor intenta referirse a todas las fuentes de poder/presión además de las autoridades politicas/policiales/militares/etc. - digase corporaciones, organizaciones criminales, etc. http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=741521>&g... I would say that poderes factuales is a version of poderes facticos: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/poetry_literatu... : File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
We have substantial literature explore these two outlying positions. ... way of measuring **de facto power**. Their concepts of what that might be is rather ...
LIBRARYThis article summarizes the recent literature on prediction markets, ... limits on the exercise of **de facto power** by the elite in democracy or for costs of ...
In the Power of the Spirit... a double status contradiction: as holders of a **de facto power** which is not ... The cultured class should be reached by a literature closer to that of ...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 20 mins (2011-09-07 22:46:57 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Before someone gets on my case again (I keep making typos this week! I'm sorry!), de and facto should be separated.
Jenni Lukac Local time: 07:19 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 40
Grading comment
I've selected your answer twice now, and written a lengthy comment. Each time I've lost my Internet connection before I could post. Sorry! Thanks for your research and comments. I think you're right, and I should just leave it at "de facto powers," despite my nagging doubts. My author is quite bilingual, so he can make the final decision. I appreciate your help.
1 day9 hrs confidence:
top-down powers
Explanation: that is, powers which do not admit of dialogue with the intellectuals (those would be "bottom-up" powers")... which do not allow the intellectuals to feed any ideas into the governing process, and therefore suppress their freedom of thought
Deborah Lockett Local time: 06:19 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 52
Notes to answerer
Asker: Intriguing way of looking at it, Deborah! I like your comment and am filing it away to be used when the situation is right. In the current context, my concern is that it would not be understood without more explanation than I care to insert. I've googled the phrase and followed a couple of the links, and I'll give my author this option to consider. Thank you so much for your contribution and have a great weekend.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +2
