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Más subvierte el diablo por viejo

English translation: The older the devil the better he subverts:


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:Más subvierte el diablo por viejo
English translation:The older the devil the better he subverts:
Entered by: Julie Waddington
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21:22 Oct 29, 2009
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Spanish term or phrase: Más subvierte el diablo por viejo
Another journal title. This time (thanks to Joss's instructions in an earlier question), I've got some context:

Más subvierte el diablo por viejo: transgresión simbólica entre los yaquis de Arizona


Resumen: Los yaquis han sido considerados gente fronteriza por su ubicación geográfica, así como por elconspicuo sincretismo de sus prácticas religiosas. La nación yaqui ha usado esta esfera como unafuente de resistencia mediante movimientos milenaristas y mesianistas. Entre los elementos quesubvierten la religión hegemónica hasta nuestros días, destacan los diablos payasos llamados cha-payekas. Estos forman parte de los fariseos, que constituyen una de las cofradías instituidas por losjesuitas en el siglo XIX. Estos payasos adoptan conductas que transgreden los órdenes civil, moraly religioso, los que son examinados en las ceremonias de cuaresma en las comunidades de Pascuay Guadalupe, Arizona. Sus máscaras, vestimenta, parafernalia y lenguaje no verbal tienen las car-acterísticas de lo grotesco descritas por Bakhtin, e incluyen orificios corporales exagerados, barri-ga, andar pendular e insinuaciones sexuales.El potencial subversivo del chapayeka se debe a la sedimentación de elementos precristianos yal sincretismo milenarista y mesianista.

ABSTRACT Yaquis have been considered border people because of their geographic location as well as forthe conspicuous synchretism of their religious practices. The Yaqui Nation has used this sphere asa source of resistance through millenarist and messianic movements. Among the elements that sub-vert the hegemonic religion up to this day the devil clowns called chapayekas stand out. The cha-payekas are part of the Fariseos, who constitute one of the sodalities instituted by the Jesuits in theXIX century. These clowns engage in behaviors that transgress the civil, moral and religious orders,which are examined based on some Lent ceremonies in the villages of Pascua and Guadalupe inArizona. Their masks, clothing, paraphernalia and nonverbal language have the characteristics ofthe grotesque described by Bakhtin including exaggerated bodily orifices, portruding belly, pendu-lar walk and sexual innuendos. The subversive potential of the Chapayeka is due to the sedimenta-tion of pre-Christian elements and the millenarist and messianic synchretism.
Patricia Rosas
United States
Local time: 17:06
The older the devil the better he subverts:
Explanation:
The older the devil the better he subverts: symbolic transgression amongst the Yaquis of Arizona

That's the title I'd give it!

In Cultural/Social Studies (particularly in reference to writers such as Bakhtin and the idea of the Carnivalesque) the terms subvert and transgression are used quite specifically and I would therefore retain these key words in your title.

The way I understand it is that the Yachi people subvert the established order of things/avoid being taken over by the dominant culture/hegemonic powers through (amongst other things no doubt) their practice of ancient rites which include devil symbolism.

Selected response from:

Julie Waddington
Spain
Local time: 01:06
Grading comment
Thank you, Julie. I went with: The older the devil, the better he subverts.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4There is no substitute for experience
Leonardo Lamarche
4The older the devil the better he subverts:
Julie Waddington
2Subversive Old Nick
Deborah Lockett


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
There is no substitute for experience


Explanation:
Reference http://www.livingspanish.com/sayings-refranes
Literally: The devil knows more from being old than for being the devil.
English equivalent: There is no substitute for experience

Leonardo Lamarche
Venezuela
Local time: 19:36
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 4
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Subversive Old Nick


Explanation:
subversive - this is the term in the English abstract

Old Nick - a "nickname" for the devil that reflects "viejo"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Nick

in essence it seems the title refers to the fact that the "devil" has "seeped through" from pagan times into Christian practices.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2009-10-30 10:01:44 GMT)
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perhaps clearer:

"Subversive Pagan Old Nick" (if indeed "viejo" in this case refers to a pre-Christian origin of the devil)

Deborah Lockett
Local time: 00:06
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 159
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
The older the devil the better he subverts:


Explanation:
The older the devil the better he subverts: symbolic transgression amongst the Yaquis of Arizona

That's the title I'd give it!

In Cultural/Social Studies (particularly in reference to writers such as Bakhtin and the idea of the Carnivalesque) the terms subvert and transgression are used quite specifically and I would therefore retain these key words in your title.

The way I understand it is that the Yachi people subvert the established order of things/avoid being taken over by the dominant culture/hegemonic powers through (amongst other things no doubt) their practice of ancient rites which include devil symbolism.



Julie Waddington
Spain
Local time: 01:06
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you, Julie. I went with: The older the devil, the better he subverts.
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Changes made by editors
Nov 5, 2009 - Changes made by Julie Waddington:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term => KOG term


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