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población mestiza, mestizaje

English translation: it depends

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07:52 Aug 3, 2004
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Spanish term or phrase: población mestiza, mestizaje
población mestiza, mestizaje
xxxJBKT
English translation:it depends
Explanation:
Hi Rosa,

As you know for yourself, as a translator, context is everything, and as it has been pointed out, the answer to your question very much depends on this.

However, assuming that we are speaking of "mestizaje humano", I would only use "mestizo race" in the specific case that you intend it exactly to mean "especially the offspring of a Spaniard and an American Indian" as pointed out in the Oxford dictionary. Why? Because I think this is the idea which a native English speaker would relate to when using the term. If you wish to indicate the mixture of other races, you would not convey your idea properly.

Thus, if with the Spanish "mestizo" and "mestizaje" terms you wish to indicate the mixture of any race without distinction (which IS the true Spanish meaning) you should avoid using "mestizo" in English.

Moreover, in Spanish mestizo and mestizaje do not only refer to humans, but also to animals and plants.

In the former case you can speak of "crossbreeds" and "crossbreeding", although this does not seem right for humans (despite the fact that we are animals - at least I am!) and in the latter of "hybrid" and "hybridation".

Since you added "población" and even though this term can also apply to animals and plants, I assume you mean "mestizaje humano".

Mestizaje in Spanish can also have the meaning of "cultural intermingling", but I would take it to be the actual mixing of races itself. Therefore I would go with Marion's answer (hence my agree), although perhaps not for the same reasoning.

Suerte y sonrisas,

Álvaro :O) :O)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 2 mins (2004-08-03 14:54:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

for anyone interested, i found a page with a very lengthy debate, not so much on mestizo but on the issue \"terminology used to discuss and describe people born with multi-racial parentage\"...

the list we spaniards used to separate people by origin is astounding. and we like to think we are not racist...here\'s a little excerpt (note here, that \"mestizo\" IS used as meaning \"Spanish/American Indian, contrary to our contemporary usage in Spain):

One must understand that the Spanish developed a whole
caste system that spanned a lot more than just black and white.
The Spaniards had names for all types of mixes and shades:

Albarazado: Cambujo and Mulato
Albino: Spanish and Morisco
Allí te estás: Chamizo and Mestizo
Barcino : Albarazado and Mulato
Barnocino: Albarazado and Mestizo
Calpamulato : Zambaigo and Lobo
Cambujo: Indian (¾) and Negro (¼)
Cambur: Negro (½), Spanish (¼), and Indian (¼)
Castizo In Puerto Rico: Spanish and Mestizo. In Guatemala: Spanish and Indian
(1/128)
Chamizo: Coyote and Indian
Chino In Peru: Mulato and Indian
Cholo In Peru: Mestizo and Indian
Cimarrón In Mexico and Guatemala: Negro (½), Spanish (¼), and Indian (¼)
Coyote : Spanish (½), Indian (3/8), and Negro (1/8)
Cuarteado: Spanish (½), Indian (¼), and Negro (¼)
Cuarterón : Spanish (¾) and Negro (¼)
Cuarterón de Chino In Peru: Spanish and Chino
Cuarterón de Mestize In Peru: Spanish and Mestizo
Cuarterón de Mulato In Peru: Spanish and Mulato
Cuatrero : Indian (¾) and Spanish (¼)
Español : Spanish/spaniard
Español Criollo: Colonial-born Spaniard
Indio: Indian
Jíbaro, Jabaro Lobo and Salta atrás
Ladino : Spanish (¾) and Indian (¼)
Lobo : Indian (¾) and Negro (¼)
Mestizo : Spanish (½) and Indian (½)
Moreno : Spanish (½), Indian (¼), and Negro (¼)
Morisco : Spanish and Mulato. In Spain: a baptized Moor
Mulato : Spanish (½) and Negro (½). In Chile and Colombia: can also be Indian
and Negro
Negro : African Black
Negro fino Negro (¾) and Spanish (¼)
No te entiende Tente en el aire and Mulato
No me toques : Mixture of Spanish, Indian, and Negro
Ochavado : Spanish (7/8) and Negro (1/8)
Pardo : Indian (½), Spanish (¼), and Negro (¼)
Prieto Negro (7/8) and Spanish (1/8)
Quartarón : See Cuarterón
Quinterón In Peru: Spanish and Cuarterón
Requinterón In Peru: Spanish and Quinterón
Salta atrás : Spanish and Albino
Tente en el aire : Calpamulato and Cambujo
Torna atrás : No te entiende and Indian
Tresalvo : Spanish (¾) and Negro (¼)
Zambaigo : Spanish and Chino
Zambo In Peru: Negro and Mulato. In Venezuela: Indian (½) and Negro (½)
Zambo de Indio In Peru: Negro (½) and Indian (½)



and here\'s the page...

http://www.interracialvoice.com/point39.html

Selected response from:

moken
Local time: 13:42
Grading comment
I have used mestizo population and clarified the word using mixed population.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +5mestizo population
Casey Butterfield
5 +4it depends
moken
4 +1mixed race population
Marion Marshrons


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
población mestiza, mestizaje
mestizo population


Explanation:
In California, where I'm from, we refer to it as the mestizo population, and mestizaje would likely be mixing or racial mixing. Leaving it as mestizo in English is acceptable in areas where there is a high awareness and/or proximity to Mexican culture.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2004-08-03 08:03:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Merriam-Webster backs me up on this:
Main Entry: mes·ti·zo
Pronunciation: -(\")zO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -zos
Etymology: Spanish, from mestizo, adjective, mixed, from Late Latin mixticius, from Latin mixtus, past participle of miscEre to mix -- more at MIX
: a person of mixed blood; specifically : a person of mixed European and American Indian ancestry

And here are some usage examples:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Demographics_of_Mexico
The population of Mexico is ethnically, culturally and racially diverse. Most Mexicans today are Mestizos (of mixed indigenous Amerindian and Spanish ancestry), and constitute around 60% of the population. In some regions of Mexico, most notably the state of Veracruz and the Costa Chica, many mestizos have also absorbed significant amounts of African strains once heavily present in those areas during the colonial period.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Mestizo
Mestizo (Port. Mestiço) is a term of Spanish origin describing peoples of mixed European and Amerindian racial descent. The feminine form is mestiza.
In colonial Latin America and Spain, the term originally referred to the children of one European and one Amerindian parent, but today refers to all people with a significant amount of both European and Amerindian ancestry in Latin America.

Mestizos officially make up the majority of the populations of Chile (90%), Colombia (58%), Ecuador (65%), El Salvador (94%), Honduras* (90%), Mexico* (60%), Nicaragua (69%), Panama* (70%), Paraguay (95%) and Venezuela (67%).



Casey Butterfield
United States
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Daniel Burns
12 mins
  -> Thank you Daniel!

agree  Veronick
5 hrs
  -> Thank you Veronick!

agree  moken: I didn't initially show an agree here because the racial bias (no ill meaning) present in English usage is not contained in the Spanish original. :O)
6 hrs

agree  naledge
18 hrs
  -> Thank you naledge!

agree  Muriel Vasconcellos: It's a perfectly good technical word; I doesn't need to infer any racial bias.
21 hrs
  -> Thanks Muriel!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
población mestiza, mestizaje
mixed race population


Explanation:
While I agree with others that 'mestizo' would be appropriate for certain audiences and although 'mestizo' is in the Oxford English Dictionary, it is not a word that would be readily understood in the UK where we would be more likely to refer to 'mixed race population' or 'people of mixed race'.


    Reference: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/rac...
    Reference: http://www.pih.org.uk/articles/2001race.html
Marion Marshrons
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  moken: hi marion - i support your rendering for other reasons too. :O) :O)
1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
población mestiza, mestizaje
it depends


Explanation:
Hi Rosa,

As you know for yourself, as a translator, context is everything, and as it has been pointed out, the answer to your question very much depends on this.

However, assuming that we are speaking of "mestizaje humano", I would only use "mestizo race" in the specific case that you intend it exactly to mean "especially the offspring of a Spaniard and an American Indian" as pointed out in the Oxford dictionary. Why? Because I think this is the idea which a native English speaker would relate to when using the term. If you wish to indicate the mixture of other races, you would not convey your idea properly.

Thus, if with the Spanish "mestizo" and "mestizaje" terms you wish to indicate the mixture of any race without distinction (which IS the true Spanish meaning) you should avoid using "mestizo" in English.

Moreover, in Spanish mestizo and mestizaje do not only refer to humans, but also to animals and plants.

In the former case you can speak of "crossbreeds" and "crossbreeding", although this does not seem right for humans (despite the fact that we are animals - at least I am!) and in the latter of "hybrid" and "hybridation".

Since you added "población" and even though this term can also apply to animals and plants, I assume you mean "mestizaje humano".

Mestizaje in Spanish can also have the meaning of "cultural intermingling", but I would take it to be the actual mixing of races itself. Therefore I would go with Marion's answer (hence my agree), although perhaps not for the same reasoning.

Suerte y sonrisas,

Álvaro :O) :O)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 2 mins (2004-08-03 14:54:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

for anyone interested, i found a page with a very lengthy debate, not so much on mestizo but on the issue \"terminology used to discuss and describe people born with multi-racial parentage\"...

the list we spaniards used to separate people by origin is astounding. and we like to think we are not racist...here\'s a little excerpt (note here, that \"mestizo\" IS used as meaning \"Spanish/American Indian, contrary to our contemporary usage in Spain):

One must understand that the Spanish developed a whole
caste system that spanned a lot more than just black and white.
The Spaniards had names for all types of mixes and shades:

Albarazado: Cambujo and Mulato
Albino: Spanish and Morisco
Allí te estás: Chamizo and Mestizo
Barcino : Albarazado and Mulato
Barnocino: Albarazado and Mestizo
Calpamulato : Zambaigo and Lobo
Cambujo: Indian (¾) and Negro (¼)
Cambur: Negro (½), Spanish (¼), and Indian (¼)
Castizo In Puerto Rico: Spanish and Mestizo. In Guatemala: Spanish and Indian
(1/128)
Chamizo: Coyote and Indian
Chino In Peru: Mulato and Indian
Cholo In Peru: Mestizo and Indian
Cimarrón In Mexico and Guatemala: Negro (½), Spanish (¼), and Indian (¼)
Coyote : Spanish (½), Indian (3/8), and Negro (1/8)
Cuarteado: Spanish (½), Indian (¼), and Negro (¼)
Cuarterón : Spanish (¾) and Negro (¼)
Cuarterón de Chino In Peru: Spanish and Chino
Cuarterón de Mestize In Peru: Spanish and Mestizo
Cuarterón de Mulato In Peru: Spanish and Mulato
Cuatrero : Indian (¾) and Spanish (¼)
Español : Spanish/spaniard
Español Criollo: Colonial-born Spaniard
Indio: Indian
Jíbaro, Jabaro Lobo and Salta atrás
Ladino : Spanish (¾) and Indian (¼)
Lobo : Indian (¾) and Negro (¼)
Mestizo : Spanish (½) and Indian (½)
Moreno : Spanish (½), Indian (¼), and Negro (¼)
Morisco : Spanish and Mulato. In Spain: a baptized Moor
Mulato : Spanish (½) and Negro (½). In Chile and Colombia: can also be Indian
and Negro
Negro : African Black
Negro fino Negro (¾) and Spanish (¼)
No te entiende Tente en el aire and Mulato
No me toques : Mixture of Spanish, Indian, and Negro
Ochavado : Spanish (7/8) and Negro (1/8)
Pardo : Indian (½), Spanish (¼), and Negro (¼)
Prieto Negro (7/8) and Spanish (1/8)
Quartarón : See Cuarterón
Quinterón In Peru: Spanish and Cuarterón
Requinterón In Peru: Spanish and Quinterón
Salta atrás : Spanish and Albino
Tente en el aire : Calpamulato and Cambujo
Torna atrás : No te entiende and Indian
Tresalvo : Spanish (¾) and Negro (¼)
Zambaigo : Spanish and Chino
Zambo In Peru: Negro and Mulato. In Venezuela: Indian (½) and Negro (½)
Zambo de Indio In Peru: Negro (½) and Indian (½)



and here\'s the page...

http://www.interracialvoice.com/point39.html



moken
Local time: 13:42
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 47
Grading comment
I have used mestizo population and clarified the word using mixed population.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marion Marshrons: I agree with your additional reasoning too!
55 mins

agree  Casey Butterfield: Excellent explanation. I stick by mine if the context merits it, of course :)
2 hrs
  -> thanks casey, that's very kind! yours might well be the answer needed - indeed, it seems that rosa is established in texas. sometimes lack of context allows us to speculate just for the fun of it! :O)

agree  Rene Ron: Excellent, Alvaro. I'm sure that after this mouthful, Rosa won't ever forget to include clear context.
2 hrs
  -> haha thanks rene! however, it wasn't my intention to shame anyone, but just to offer some plausible variations on a theme. if we were not given more info, i assume it is because the asker is head over heels with work. :O) :O)

neutral  Muriel Vasconcellos: This is an excellent reference, and I have added to my terminology "favorites," but agree with Casey that "mestizo" is a common technical term in US anthropological and other social science texts.
1 day8 hrs
  -> thanks muriel. i think you misunderstood use of the term bias. my point: mestizo in u.s. english is used to describe a specific type of mixed race, whereas in modern day spanish it means any type and not a particular kind. bias is not prejudice. :O) :O)

agree  María Alejandra Ronderos Zota: This is research!
3600 days
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