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Spanish to English translations [PRO] Sports / Fitness / Recreation / Football (soccer)
Spanish term or phrase:referencias
Hello
This is from an interview with Del Bosque, the Spain manager:
"Nosotros en el Madrid jugamos mucho con Guti y Raúl, sin tener **referencias** fijas arriba y fue una etapa en la que jugamos muy bien.
Recuerdo un partido en que ganamos en Roma y fue un repaso, sin dejar **referencias** al contrario, jugando entre líneas… En España tenemos a Cesc, Silva, Iniesta, jugadores todos de ese corte que son muy buenos para hacer esa función."
Explanation: As in "what position do you play?". I'd have thought left winger, centre forward, inside right (showing my age there), etc. are what you'd call positions.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 21 mins (2011-12-30 18:24:24 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
You're right, Simon, the second case is a problem. but I think it may be position to work in "positions" with some adjustment; maybe something like "without giving our opponents set positions to mark" or "without presenting our opponents with set positions".
Football AsSOCiation, the word 'soccer' comes from "association" and, yes, it was used to distinguish it from the non-association football in which hands were used (but at the time I don't believe had been given the name rugby and did not have formal rules nor much similarity to modern rugby).
Yes, but we are would-be, ha, ha! translators as well as supporters, even though Brentford & Chelsea FC fans have queried my use of the term 'soccer'. TT whose association with the game goes back far further than with the law.
Thanks for the kind words all, it has been a fun debate.
To be honest I don't think there is a true equivalent term, and the context and target audience should probably be the deciding factors in any given case.
As everyone else has listed all the options that have been discussed, then I will not add to the fray. Have a good year everyone.
I agree with Simon: you should post it. "Fixed reference points" could work well. Like not letting the other team get their bearings.
It reminds me of a classic Jonathan Wilson quote from one the articles you referred to in your "false nine" answer: "English football, with its simplistic tactical shapes, has traditionally struggled with players who don't stand where they're supposed to".
Well, whaddya know! I thought of "points of reference" at the outset (it's one of the standard ways of dealing with "referencias", after all) but dismissed it on the grounds that surely no one in football uses that term. As you say, you live and learn. Happy New Year!
Hi Simon, I am sure you have sorted this one out but I heard two comments about a centre forward last night on BBC Radio Five Live from the Swansea manager, Brendan Rogers. He was talking about Danny Graham being a "reference point" for the team when he is upfront and later again said he was a "reference". I live and learn!
Look, the problem with all these translations is that they do not have the nuance of being the one that is there to concrete the action, as a "referencia" is like the guy that is that says "hello, I am the RMA´s attacker, you know you have to mark me"....
The best translation for me is the "fixed position" proposed by me. However, again you are losing something in the translation, but I think that is the deal with translation, is it not? Negotiating meanings and nuances
Hi Simon, by "referencias" he is referring to players staying in a set/fixed position on the pitch. In the example, they played without a classic number 9. I will have a think but you may have to come up with something that is not particularly football speak.
Sorry, I should have given the question to which the sentences I have given above are the answer:
¿Puede utilizar un nueve mentiroso que ahora está muy de moda?
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Answers
10 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +4
positions
Explanation: As in "what position do you play?". I'd have thought left winger, centre forward, inside right (showing my age there), etc. are what you'd call positions.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 21 mins (2011-12-30 18:24:24 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
You're right, Simon, the second case is a problem. but I think it may be position to work in "positions" with some adjustment; maybe something like "without giving our opponents set positions to mark" or "without presenting our opponents with set positions".
Charles Davis Local time: 07:42 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 52
Grading comment
Thanks everyone. I liked Dr Neil's solution too but this answer explained the concept for me.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Charles, good solution, though it doesn't quite work in the second sentence, but I can change that around a bit.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +4