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Have I got the nuances right?

English translation: A possible solution

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22:04 May 11, 2002
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering
Spanish term or phrase: Have I got the nuances right?
Por su parte, la continua de anillos ofrecía respuestas atractivas a la carestía del carbón y a la disponibilidad limitada de agua. Idéntica solución imponía la necesidad de ahorrar mano de obra cualificada y cara, generalmente masculina pero a veces también femenina. La instalación de continuas obedecía a la necesidad de reducir los costes de mano de obra, independientemente de su composición por sexo . Esto quire decir que las selfactinas fueron sustituidas por continuas en las fábricas en que la selfactina era el baluarte del trabajo cualificado masculino , pero también en las fábricas que emplaban mujeres en las selfactinas.

My draft:The ring frame, however, was an attractive solution to the shortage of coal and the limited availablility of water. It was also the solution to the need to save on skilled, expensive labour, generally male but sometimes female. Ring frames obeyed the need to reduce the cost of labour, independently of the gender composition of the workforce . What this meant was that the self-acting mules were replaced by ring frames in factories where the former was the bastion/stronghold of skilled male labour but also where women were employed.

Apart from confirming if I got the significance right, what about the translation for baluarte. To my mind stronghold or bastion (or bulwark) is not entirely correct here to refer to the machine/male labour relationship (this machine required skilled, hence generally male, and thus expensive labour, the other alternative would require less skilled = feamle labour).
xxxLia Fail
Spain
Local time: 20:00
English translation:A possible solution
Explanation:
To me, "baluarte" in this case surely means "stronghold", but an option would be "domain".

I'm assuming that "selfactinas" and "contínuas" have been well researched, so I'll refer only to what you have asked.

The SL is poor in that it lacks fluidity and consistency If you look at the last sentence that starts with: "Esto quiere decir..." and you read along, you come across the un-requested conclusion: "...pero también en las fábricas..."

It stands to reason that "pero también" suggests that along the lines of "no sólo en las fábricas" is absent from the beginning of the sentence.

A possible rendition:

For its part, the ring frame offered attractive solutions to the shortage of coal and the limited availability of water. The need to economize on costly and qualified labour, generally male and yet sometimes also female, demanded an identical solution. The installation of ring frames resulted from the need to reduce labour costs, regardless of gender composition. This means that self-acting mules were replaced by ring frames (not only) in factories where the self-acting mules were the stronghold of skilled male labour, but also at factories where women were employed on self-acting mules.

BoBL
F.
Selected response from:

Francis Icaza
United States
Local time: 14:00
Grading comment
For the record, although Anne deserved points (as also the agrees) for upholding the spirit of ProZ, it would not have been fair to ignore answers to the question put in favour of an issue that has no place here. My problem was that a machine cannot be a bastion/stronghold for male labour, so I had to rearrange the sentence so as to make the factories the stronghold (only places can be strongholds). Thanks to everybody.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +4comment for e-richxxxAnneM
4 +2FRANCIS, THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE "AGREE"
Bill Greendyk
5 +1comments
Monica Colangelo
4 +1A possible solution
Francis Icaza
5Stronghold
Maria Luisa Duarte
4Beautifully done, Ailish
Maria


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Stronghold


Explanation:
Hi!
I feel that you have put across the correct meaning of the text in the translation.
With regards to the term BALUARTE, I think that your second option is correct.
Good Luck

Maria Luisa Duarte
Spain
Local time: 20:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in pair: 3168
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45 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
comments


Explanation:
Ailish: I would only change the last sentence to read as follows:

"... were replaced by ring frames not only in factories where they were the stronghold of skilled male labour but also in those others where women were employed."

Monica Colangelo
Argentina
Local time: 15:00
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 1014

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  MJ Barber
15 mins
  -> Thanks a bunch, MJ
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51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Beautifully done, Ailish


Explanation:
I would perhaps changed:

öbedecía a la necesidad for "responded to the need

"selfactinas = selfacting spinning mules

baluarte = the realm???

Maria
Local time: 13:00
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 920
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
comment for e-rich


Explanation:
If you check Siulach's asker history, you will see that she has 'properly closed over 500 questions' and has earned 1750 kudoZ points. A more than active and professional member of Proz. Maybe you should consider that Siulach may be under pressure to meet deadlines or maybe is not ready to close the questions as often better answers come in a couple of days later.
As for your nuances Ailish fine but would take into consideration the suggestions people have made - except e-rich's. Sorry e-rich but I don't think your comment was fair.


xxxAnneM
Local time: 20:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 363

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bill Greendyk: Well said, Anne! Are we here first to help our colleagues or to gain some points? Cheers to you!
1 hr

agree  Andrea Bullrich: :-)
8 hrs

agree  Jennifer Callahan: Good for you! That comment was so far out of line, I'm glad someone addressed it!
11 hrs

agree  xxxtazdog
13 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
A possible solution


Explanation:
To me, "baluarte" in this case surely means "stronghold", but an option would be "domain".

I'm assuming that "selfactinas" and "contínuas" have been well researched, so I'll refer only to what you have asked.

The SL is poor in that it lacks fluidity and consistency If you look at the last sentence that starts with: "Esto quiere decir..." and you read along, you come across the un-requested conclusion: "...pero también en las fábricas..."

It stands to reason that "pero también" suggests that along the lines of "no sólo en las fábricas" is absent from the beginning of the sentence.

A possible rendition:

For its part, the ring frame offered attractive solutions to the shortage of coal and the limited availability of water. The need to economize on costly and qualified labour, generally male and yet sometimes also female, demanded an identical solution. The installation of ring frames resulted from the need to reduce labour costs, regardless of gender composition. This means that self-acting mules were replaced by ring frames (not only) in factories where the self-acting mules were the stronghold of skilled male labour, but also at factories where women were employed on self-acting mules.

BoBL
F.

Francis Icaza
United States
Local time: 14:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 176
Grading comment
For the record, although Anne deserved points (as also the agrees) for upholding the spirit of ProZ, it would not have been fair to ignore answers to the question put in favour of an issue that has no place here. My problem was that a machine cannot be a bastion/stronghold for male labour, so I had to rearrange the sentence so as to make the factories the stronghold (only places can be strongholds). Thanks to everybody.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Bill Greendyk: Yes, very nice! Ailish, as Francis suggests, use "regardless of" instead of "independent of." The idiom doesn't translate into English. :-))
1 hr
  -> Thank you Bear!

agree  xxxOso: ¶:^)
2 hrs
  -> Bear

agree  Luteba: Great improvement - Francis' version reads less like a translation.
21 hrs
  -> So kind, thank you, Francis
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
FRANCIS, THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE "AGREE"


Explanation:
Sorry, Francis, I was only trying to agree with your very good proposal! Hit the wrong button!

Bill Greendyk
United States
Local time: 14:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 527

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Francis Icaza: Not a problem, at all... Cheers, F
6 mins
  -> You definitely fall into the category of "nice people" Ailish mentions in her note above. :-)))

agree  Andrea Bullrich: Now if only we had an "unsend" button... ;-)
6 hrs
  -> Right, Andrea!!
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