Translation to Minority Languages Thread poster: Henry Hinds
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Henry Hinds 
United States
Local time: 13:44
English to Spanish
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In memoriam
Not having any contact at all with the situation, I have always wondered about the relevance of translating road signs, public anouncements and other materials into some minority languages. It is obviously necessary in cases where there is population knowing only a minority language, but it would not seem to have any relevance for languages such as Irish or Welsh, for instance, in countries where the dominant language is English and the educational system teaches it to all. I'm sure there could ... See more Not having any contact at all with the situation, I have always wondered about the relevance of translating road signs, public anouncements and other materials into some minority languages. It is obviously necessary in cases where there is population knowing only a minority language, but it would not seem to have any relevance for languages such as Irish or Welsh, for instance, in countries where the dominant language is English and the educational system teaches it to all. I'm sure there could be other examples as well. I should emphasize at this point that no offense is meant, and in fact some of my own ancestors were speakers of the Irish language. The languages I mention have implications for ethic pride, the merits of which I leave out of the discussion, but the real question is: Are there really any monolingual speakers of those languages (and others I am not aware of) left? So is translation actually necessary?
I'd be interested in hearing comments on this subject. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Cart before the horse | Apr 16, 2014 |
I doubt that there are many MONOLINGUAL speakers of Welsh in the UK, Sorbian in Germany and other minority languages in countries with a pervasive main language which plays a dominant role in public life and education. But more to the point, there are probably a considerable number of such people who only have a NON-NATIVE command of the dominant language. You have been in the translation business long enough to know what havoc a non-native command of a language can cause.
So even i... See more I doubt that there are many MONOLINGUAL speakers of Welsh in the UK, Sorbian in Germany and other minority languages in countries with a pervasive main language which plays a dominant role in public life and education. But more to the point, there are probably a considerable number of such people who only have a NON-NATIVE command of the dominant language. You have been in the translation business long enough to know what havoc a non-native command of a language can cause.
So even in your terms of reference (pure utilitarianism without any respect for cultural identity), I believe there is a solid argument for using the minority language to ensure that there is no uncertainty about what traffic signs etc. mean.
The cultural reasons for language diversity, respect and the preservation of minority languages are even more compelling in my view. There are good reasons for preserving linguistic plurality - and in some major global conflicts we can see the unfortunate side-effects of an approach which declares that some languages are expendable.
I would hope that members of this forum are linguistically aware enough to see the importance of active language preservation without a need for lengthy explanations.
[Edited at 2014-04-16 19:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Too many languages on signs are confusing | Apr 17, 2014 |
and it may potentially cause more accidents. If the official language is taught in all schools, the residents should know it, and let the tourists learn some of it before they visit the country, or abstain from driving, or study the signs in advance and translate them for themselves before the trip--i how many standard signs are there, after all? About a hundred--most wihtout inscriptions.
No, I don't think signs should be translated into other than official languages (there are so... See more and it may potentially cause more accidents. If the official language is taught in all schools, the residents should know it, and let the tourists learn some of it before they visit the country, or abstain from driving, or study the signs in advance and translate them for themselves before the trip--i how many standard signs are there, after all? About a hundred--most wihtout inscriptions.
No, I don't think signs should be translated into other than official languages (there are sometimes two, or perhaps even three official languages in some countries). Otherwise, I love all languages, whether more or less popular, modern, or old, or perhaps even extinct. You have to use some common sense though, when making safety decisions.
I am not sure--what someone meant by that "some people may not use some languages as their native"--do you automatically assume that if a language is not someone's 'native" (whatever that means these days) they are morons who don't understand anything? The purpose of learning other languags is to understand--you can understand multiple langauges well--sometimes it may be harder to speak ten languages well, but you can easily understand many--if you devote some of your time to study them. Some people may not understand certain things in any language--this is also a fact. If you don't didn't make any efforts to understand the official languages of the country, then you may not understand anything--get a cab or hire an interpreter. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Many traffic signs are non-verbal in the EU | Apr 17, 2014 |
Many traffic signs in the EU are purely pictograms, but I am old enough to remember the 'ice cream' that meant SCHOOL in the UK. (Actually, it was supposed to be the Beacon of Learning, reflected on our Beacon Readers.) However, should anyone be in doubt, the explanation was written under the picture in English.
And that one was necessary - we all pretended to believe it meant motorists shold watch out for children more interested in ice cream than traffic, but if you did not actually know... See more Many traffic signs in the EU are purely pictograms, but I am old enough to remember the 'ice cream' that meant SCHOOL in the UK. (Actually, it was supposed to be the Beacon of Learning, reflected on our Beacon Readers.) However, should anyone be in doubt, the explanation was written under the picture in English.
And that one was necessary - we all pretended to believe it meant motorists shold watch out for children more interested in ice cream than traffic, but if you did not actually know, it was hard to guess.
We were sorry to see the old signs go. Small everyday texts are an important part of learning a language!
I remember being quite upset - in the Sixth form, after many years of learning French - when I discovered I did not know the word for a pair of scissors! I was able to read quite a lot of French literature, but uncertain of a lot of small everyday situations - and still would be, as I have never spent time in France.
I also remember my son's glee when we visited Wales, and he could pick up words here and there - we said 'ARAF! ARAF!' (SLOW) at road junctions for a long time afterwards.
These things raise awareness of the language, and are proof that it is a living language. In the middle of the 19th century the Danes in southern Jutland fought for their language, which was under htreat then from German, and I wish they would do it again!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skamlingsbanken
Real Danish is much easier to translate than the calqued 'Danglish' some people use!
Danish is said to be one of the world's 'smallest' complete languages, understood as a language that still has all domains intact - Law and Government, Higher Education and Science, trade, commerce and professions, and of course extensive literature and so on. Some people think it sounds terrible, but it is a fascinating language all the same.
I can understand why the Welsh and Irish - and all other minorities - want to keep their languages alive. ▲ Collapse
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 21:44
Spanish to English
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| Signs of identity | Apr 19, 2014 |
Sometimes it becomes a sort of badge of identity. For example in Catalonia and Valencia, most road signs are in Castilian Spanish as well as the regional counterpart, as are place names, for example near me we have the Masía del Juez industrial estate, aka Mas del Jutge. Language is often used as a political bludgeon between adversaries here (see Barcelona), and there is even a schism between Valencian and Catalan, but I'm not going to open that particular can today.
In Scotland, m... See more Sometimes it becomes a sort of badge of identity. For example in Catalonia and Valencia, most road signs are in Castilian Spanish as well as the regional counterpart, as are place names, for example near me we have the Masía del Juez industrial estate, aka Mas del Jutge. Language is often used as a political bludgeon between adversaries here (see Barcelona), and there is even a schism between Valencian and Catalan, but I'm not going to open that particular can today.
In Scotland, more road signs are now being erected in Gaelic, even in areas where there are few Gaelic speakers (I'm a Glasgow keelie* and all I can say in Gaelic is "how's it going /cheers/kiss my ***..."). I see it as a reaffirmation (often unnecessary IMO) of what is really an ongoing reconstruction of Scots identity in the 21st century, not all of which I approve of. Wikpedia explains the current situation quite well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_road_signs_in_Scotland
*an urban ruffian; lower-class town or city dweller, esp Glaswegian. [C19: of
uncertain origin]. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 13:44
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER In memoriam
There was just a modest number of replies, but they were interesting to note. I was addressing more than road signs, but that aspect is important. The situation where I live (U.S. - Mexico border) is that neither country uses the international type signs that are used in Europe. They tend to be language-intensive; English on the U.S. side and Spanish on the Mexican side. On the U.S. side we also have a very significant resident population that knows only Spanish, plus large numbers of visitors f... See more There was just a modest number of replies, but they were interesting to note. I was addressing more than road signs, but that aspect is important. The situation where I live (U.S. - Mexico border) is that neither country uses the international type signs that are used in Europe. They tend to be language-intensive; English on the U.S. side and Spanish on the Mexican side. On the U.S. side we also have a very significant resident population that knows only Spanish, plus large numbers of visitors from Mexico.
Do we need bilingual signs? Yes. Do we have them? No. ▲ Collapse
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