| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Tender season again... Thread poster: Peter Shortall
|
|---|
Maria S. Loose, LL.M. wrote:
Translators would be much better off if they applied directly as freelancers. All necessary information can be found on the websites of each European Institution. The information to be found is very detailled and guides you through the application process.
I looked into that a couple of different times over the past few years - I even asked someone who is a staff translator at some EU institution or another - and came up with nothing. It seemed clear that all the EU institutions want to outsource their jobs in larger batches than a freelancer could handle, which requires doing it through agencies. A lot of the time they even bundle different languages together (this usually leads to a large agency taking the contract and subcontracting the actual work to multiple other agencies in the various target countries).
So, if you have leads on where to apply for direct freelance translation work, please let me know.
| | | | | No, it is different | Mar 31, 2015 |
John Fossey wrote: Maria S. Loose, LL.M. wrote:
If freelance translators work for the EU via agencies they are considered to be subcontractors. When permitting the agency to present their CV to the EU they have to sign a declaration of intent. It's a declaration in which they declare that they intend to be a subcontractor of the agency in case the agency is sucessful. Of course the EU cannot force translators to do what they promised. That's why it signs framework contracts with multiple contractors. If the contractor ranked first is unavailable (= his subcontractors are unavailable) the EU will send a purchase order to the contractor ranked second and so on. There are always at least 8 framework contracts in place. So that means 8 sets of translators had to go through the documentation process so that 1 set of translators gets the work! There will always be 7 sets of translators that went through the process but didn't get the job.
1 or 2 or 3 sets of translators went through the selection process, the agency keeps the references and work is done in-house. Of course the agency will never say they are unavailable! They know that competitors will take the batch! If necessary they hire another in-house translator or trainee or whatever, there are lots of well-trained young translators out there.
The whole tender process is a masquerade, because it means that competent translators who have two or three source languages and several specialization areas will never be able to prove that they translated 1500 pages in a special language pair and field. And if they can, and are able to produce evidence (invoices) - they are in conflict with confidentiality issues each translator should have, such as laid down in ethical agreements of the official translators' associations and confidentiality agreements with their clients. It means giving out business information to a competitor.
And besides that, don't forget that lots of agencies forbid their translators formally to work directly for their clients - which includes the EC.
| | | | | The tendering process is ridiculously complicated. | Mar 31, 2015 |
I took one look at the long list of requirements - references, evidence of work done, proof of financial soundness - and decided it was just too much trouble.
I used to work direct for both the Commission and the Parliament, both of whom contacted me as a result of my ITI listing. I understand that life is more complicated now, and there has to be a proper competitive tendering process, but why can't you just quote a price and provide a sample of your work? It's such a shame that t... See more I took one look at the long list of requirements - references, evidence of work done, proof of financial soundness - and decided it was just too much trouble.
I used to work direct for both the Commission and the Parliament, both of whom contacted me as a result of my ITI listing. I understand that life is more complicated now, and there has to be a proper competitive tendering process, but why can't you just quote a price and provide a sample of your work? It's such a shame that they're missing out on good translators who are put off by the mountain of red tape.
And it's ridiculous requiring agencies to go through the charade of putting together a "team" of translators and provide all their details. I just politely say no when I get emails from agencies on this subject, and explain that it's a waste of my time and theirs.
Also, why the obsession with the number of pages you've translated? There are plenty of people who've been translating for decades but are still not very good at it.
[Edited at 2015-04-01 05:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neirda 
China
Local time: 19:54
Chinese to French
+ ...
| Why are they outsourcing? | Apr 1, 2015 |
Given my pair, it is unlikely I'll ever work for the EC, but as a EU citizen let's say I am curious.
With such a steady and predictable inflow of translating material, I always assumed they would have their own in-house translators, or at least their own solid contact list. Why tendering every year, sound super messy to me.
Help me understand?
| | |
|
|
|
Diana Obermeyer
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:54
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
philgoddard wrote:
I took one look at the long list of requirements - references, evidence of work done, proof of financial soundness - and decided it was just too much trouble.
[Edited at 2015-04-01 05:29 GMT]
I ventured as far as reading the specifications the last time this option was discussed here, maybe half a year ago or so, and concluded that I should steer clear of an attempt.
I'm sort of allergic to paperwork anyway. I almost faint when I receive the batch of paperwork some agencies seem to need for their database. I look at that and feel my interest fading. At least in my language pair, it's not that difficult to secure direct clients and once one gets used to simple and uncomplicated workflows with minimal paperwork requirements, form filling becomes an even greater demotivator.
I know, it's the EU and not some random agency. But to me, it appears almost insurmountable. I would not know where to start. Now I guess from that perspective, agencies are better equipped to submit tenders. They have dedicated staff for dealing with paperwork. But it should be doable for a small team of translators who like to collaborate and network, or for translators with a lesser aversion to paperwork.
I would have thought that the minimum 1500 page requirement is not excessive. I've not been working as a translator for that long and my two biggest direct clients account for around 1000 pages each. While they would definitely not be happy to serve as a reference for agencies or other businesses similar to their own, they may well agree to do so for the EU. But I guess that's just another advantage of primarily working direct.
Out of curiosity, I also checked the average total page count per year assigned in my language pairs and the maximum number on framework contracts to be awarded. In both directions, they stood at a ratio of 1000 standard pages/framework contract. This is a workload which should be manageable for most translators. Of course, not all are assigned this amount, but from what I understood, the order of assignment depends on a dynamic ranking system. So, at the start of the agreement, agencies are more likely to rank at the top, because capacity is a factor in establishing the ranking. But then, quality becomes a major factor. So, a freelancer who provides exceptional quality may well move up in the rankings and gain a regular workflow, a few months into the initial 18 month contract. This position is then maintained on renewal. That's if I read the specifications correctly.
Again, out of curiosity, I checked the entities currently holding contracts and noticed that the list contains a reasonable number of individuals. In fact, for EN-DE, they outnumber the agencies! This may well be a cultural thing, but certainly food for thought.
Edited to add this link: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/translation/workwithus/calls/closed/contractors_gen11_deutsch.pdf
[Edited at 2015-04-01 08:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-04-01 08:29 GMT]
| | | | Diana Obermeyer
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:54
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
Sorry!!!
[Edited at 2015-04-01 08:35 GMT]
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:54
Serbian to English
+ ...
| given the size of the EU | Apr 1, 2015 |
and the volume of work, you would expect that they could have their own Project Managers and direct contacts with translators (what better way to be sure who is really doing the translations, and have effective coordination, consistent terminology, etc ... ?)
But then, never let common sense stand in the way of the ideological lunacy of outsourcing anything and everything at any price, on the assumptions that any form of market must be better than any form of involvement of civil se... See more and the volume of work, you would expect that they could have their own Project Managers and direct contacts with translators (what better way to be sure who is really doing the translations, and have effective coordination, consistent terminology, etc ... ?)
But then, never let common sense stand in the way of the ideological lunacy of outsourcing anything and everything at any price, on the assumptions that any form of market must be better than any form of involvement of civil servants .... even when it's blindingly obvious that it's not the case...
end of rant. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Cedomir Pusica
Serbia
Local time: 13:54
Member (2009)
English to Serbian
+ ...
| Somewhat unfair | Apr 1, 2015 |
The EU seems not to be too concerned about the translation providers, as long as they deliver.
They set up a bunch of individual contractors and subcontractors and place work with the one who tops the list at the moment. OK. But it's not really okay.
The rest of them keep your back and I believe there should be more than just a promise not to promise any work. All those who ranked second, third, and so on, have gone through the exact same process and spent money and ti... See more The EU seems not to be too concerned about the translation providers, as long as they deliver.
They set up a bunch of individual contractors and subcontractors and place work with the one who tops the list at the moment. OK. But it's not really okay.
The rest of them keep your back and I believe there should be more than just a promise not to promise any work. All those who ranked second, third, and so on, have gone through the exact same process and spent money and time on their bids that it seems unfair.
That's something to correct in the future. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| A bit of a provocation | Apr 1, 2015 |
I am going to be a bit provocative now: as dianaft said, there are a lot of German translators and very few translators with different target languages who signed framework contracts with the European Commission. You can find this information on DG Translation's website. I personally know some of them. So why is everybody talking about agencies? And why are there so many complaints about low rates being paid by agencies? Why don't those who complain about low rates don't want to fill in some for... See more I am going to be a bit provocative now: as dianaft said, there are a lot of German translators and very few translators with different target languages who signed framework contracts with the European Commission. You can find this information on DG Translation's website. I personally know some of them. So why is everybody talking about agencies? And why are there so many complaints about low rates being paid by agencies? Why don't those who complain about low rates don't want to fill in some forms and take some steps to get higher rates?
In my opinion, it's always a lot more complicated to win direct clients. You either have to do a lot of marketing (websites, social media, trade fairs etc.) or you fill out the paper work required for taking part in tendering procedures.
By the way, the number of pages required to prove minimum professional experience seems to be similar with the EN 15038 standard. Translators and agencies who want to be certified under this standard also have to prove their professional experience by submitting letters of reference. In an unregulated profession there seems to be no other way to do this. You do this once and then you don't need to do it any more for the rest of your professional life as a translator. Just make sure that for each job you do your language pair and the subject matter are mentioned on the invoice or ask for a letter of reference. After a couple of years you should have enough of these documents even if you work with mulitple languages. This seems to be the same for those who work under the EN 15038 standard for which you have to have two years of documented experience if you don't have a degree in translation studies.
As far as other preconceived ideas are concerned, I can only refer you to DG Translation's website. They explain very well the way they work, the number of in-house translators, the kind of texts they outsource, etc. And they do have project managers. Moreover, like all government agencies the EU is bound by very strict legislation on public tendering. Translation services are no different from other services. And as soon as the amount is above 130.000 EUR, a contract notice has to be published and a tendering procedure has to be launched. Discrimination between legal persons and natural persons is not allowed. That's why the EU may not contact translators directly.
And finally, as far as the question of multiple framework contracts is concerned, the EU institutions need to be sure that if they have work, somebody is available to do it. And the ranking does not depend on your volume but on the quality of your offer according to the quality criteria mentioned in the tendering specifications: Your additional professional experience above the minimum required (for which you do not need to submit any proof other than your CV), your working methods, your technological equipment etc.
To sum it all up, I think that anyone who wants to have more direct clients should take part in these calls for tenders. I do admit that it is complicated. It might be a good idea to ask your national associations to help you with this.
[Edited at 2015-04-01 15:20 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-04-01 15:22 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-04-01 19:32 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-04-01 19:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 06:54
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Name/entity changes? | Apr 1, 2015 |
As for the invoices, what if, say, you did business as a sole proprietor (~sole trader) for a long time and recently incorporated as a legal entity. Obviously there would different issuer names on the invoices from earlier vs recent ones. I wonder if this means that you're out of luck as far as using invoices to prove experience, or would the tendering authority accept an explanation that you've simply changed your legal form, but are nonetheless still "you".
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 07:54
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Loyal (private sector) clients | Apr 1, 2015 |
Maria S. Loose, LL.M. wrote:
...Why don't those who complain about low rates don't want to fill out some forms and take some steps to get higher rates?
Because with a lot less work, but with some networking and attention to quality and customer service, it is possible to get higher rates without the paperwork, and this from loyal clients in the private sector who will come back year after year.
| | | | | I've sent an email | Apr 1, 2015 |
To Rytis Martikonis, the head of the directorate-general for translation at the Commission, asking if he'd like to respond to the points raised in this thread.
| | |
|
|
|
philgoddard wrote:
To Rytis Martikonis, the head of the directorate-general for translation at the Commission, asking if he'd like to respond to the points raised in this thread.
That's a really good idea, thanks Phil - I was just going to say it would be good if the EC could listen to what we have to say about this. I think it could benefit everyone involved if they can address some of these issues.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:54
Serbian to English
+ ...
| cooked in the same kitchen | Apr 2, 2015 |
of "outsourcing anything and everything" on the assumption that it must be "value for money":
http://www.irr.org.uk/news/lost-in-privatisation-capita-court-interpreting-services-and-fair-trial-rights/
http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2012/12/ministry-of-justice-interpreter-contract-caused-total-chaos/
etc
Hope that the EU is not heading the same way ....
@Pierret Adrien
"Why are they outsourcing? Apr 1
Given my pair, it is unlikely I'll ever work for the EC, but as a EU citizen let's say I am curious.
With such a steady and predictable inflow of translating material, I always assumed they would have their own in-house translators, or at least their own solid contact list. Why tendering every year, sound super messy to me.
Help me understand?"
Simple: ideological obsession with the market expressed trough the mantra of "value for money" [always considered in the shortest term, of course ...] + pretty shallow understanding of how to insure top quality of the translations (acting as if producing words is the same as producing bricks)...
[Edited at 2015-04-02 00:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Felicia Negru will be speaking at the next IAPTI conference | Apr 21, 2015 |
about “Contracts for translation services and EU institutions: how thick is the jungle?”
Did you know Felicia…
… heads a unit of the Directorate General for Translation of the EU?
…. also holds a DESS in Business Administration?
www.iapti.org [email protected]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Tender season again... | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
