| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Agencies insisting you use a particular CAT tool Thread poster: Paris Brooker
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 03:06
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| No sarcasm, hence the smiley | May 4, 2015 |
Paris2083 wrote:
If you disagree with my point that's fine, but can I suggest you support your response with something other than irrelevant sarcasm.
My post was intended as humour, not sarcasm. Look, there's a smiley at the bottom.
| | | | Diana Obermeyer
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:06
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
| I think that's a very valid point | May 4, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Paris2083 wrote:
I've had this with a few agencies; they insist that I complete the job with a particular CAT tool. Does anyone else find this as irritating as I do? Do they also insist on a particular language. That's even more irritating. What's wrong with the language that I invested most of my life in? I guess the client's needs are just different from what I can deliver. 
and am nodding my head in agreement.
I really don't understand why anyone would get annoyed about it.
Clients have certain preferences.
Either I can deliver in line with those preferences, or I look for clients whose preferences are in line with mine.
The market is big enough. There's no need to get hung up about a particular outsourcer - or translator.
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 09:06
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Project management | May 4, 2015 |
I've worked on numerous gaming projects where the content is being processed simultaneously by several translators and TM/glossaries updated constantly, and for such projects I've been asked to work in memsource or memoQ. Project management in such cases would be at least 3-4 times more complicated without the benefit of a cloud system. There is no love lost between me and memoQ, but as long as a license is provided I have no particular objection either. I actually like memsource.
O... See more I've worked on numerous gaming projects where the content is being processed simultaneously by several translators and TM/glossaries updated constantly, and for such projects I've been asked to work in memsource or memoQ. Project management in such cases would be at least 3-4 times more complicated without the benefit of a cloud system. There is no love lost between me and memoQ, but as long as a license is provided I have no particular objection either. I actually like memsource.
One of my current clients requires that I work in XTM, which has a terrible translation interface. I download the file, do it in OmegaT, upload the completed file, and do the final checking in XTM.
Now, anyone who insists that I use Trados can shove it. But there's usually a way around, to a certain extent at least, and if an agency is so adamant about it, chances are that there are other reasons you won't want to work with them anyway. ▲ Collapse
| | | | mariealpilles
France
Local time: 03:06
Member (2014)
English to French
+ ...
It is up to you if you accept. I usually refuse and let them know that they should be concerned with the translated product. What I use to reach taht goal is my problem. If you go to the butcher, try telling him which knife you want him to use - I guess you will be sent flying out of the shop. And rightly so. he is the Professional and knows best and so are you. Stand your grounds and do not let teh clients decide how you should do the work. taht is and has always been my answer, and after some ... See more It is up to you if you accept. I usually refuse and let them know that they should be concerned with the translated product. What I use to reach taht goal is my problem. If you go to the butcher, try telling him which knife you want him to use - I guess you will be sent flying out of the shop. And rightly so. he is the Professional and knows best and so are you. Stand your grounds and do not let teh clients decide how you should do the work. taht is and has always been my answer, and after some discussions, usually the client sees my point of view. On top of that in the case of direct clients, that usually comes from a secretary who claims to be a Professional. In the case of agencies, it is usually because they want to explain that they do some work too. ▲ Collapse
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| Illustrative sarcasm? | May 4, 2015 |
Paris2083 wrote: Samuel Murray wrote: Paris2083 wrote:
I've had this with a few agencies; they insist that I complete the job with a particular CAT tool. Does anyone else find this as irritating as I do? Do they also insist on a particular language. That's even more irritating. What's wrong with the language that I invested most of my life in? I guess the client's needs are just different from what I can deliver. What a stupid comparison to make. What eventually comes out of a CAT tool is a word/pdf document and a TM; my point is insisting that me having to adapt to a particular CAT tool to deliver these two things is irritating, because it takes time to learn the idiosyncrasies of said tool. It's not that I can't deliver it, it's just that they are putting what I deem to be an unnecessary obstacle in my way of working as quickly and efficiently as possible, particularly as in the two particular instances I'm thinking of, the agencies have approached me. If you disagree with my point that's fine, but can I suggest you support your response with something other than irrelevant sarcasm.
What Samuel said is exactly what I thought when I read the original post.
An irrelevant comparison is "try going to a car dealership/bla/bla/bla and telling him what tool to use etc."
If you want your local butcher to use a certain knife and he says "no" but you find out that the butcher round the corner already uses that knife - and the type of knife used is your primary concern - where are you going to get your meat from?
Certainly not from the butcher that gets angry with you for asking.....
In any case, in this instance it's best to calculate whether the investment is worth it or not. If it's not, breath in, breath out and move on. The wrinkles aren't worth it and if you've already worked with this agency in the past, they aren't going to drop you for not investing in a new CAT tool for one project. They know what they're asking.
| | | | | I have decided a second CAT is not worth the investment | May 4, 2015 |
I have only had this with one agency that requires Transit (I use Trados Studio). For a while I did oblige but I found I really didn't have the time or interest to really learn their program. I hated it (I couldn't get my head around it and really wasn't interested in learning). But, the worst thing with it was that it slowed me down in my other translations using Studio. I type extremely fast and the commands issued with keystrokes are second nature to me now. Since the commands in the other pr... See more I have only had this with one agency that requires Transit (I use Trados Studio). For a while I did oblige but I found I really didn't have the time or interest to really learn their program. I hated it (I couldn't get my head around it and really wasn't interested in learning). But, the worst thing with it was that it slowed me down in my other translations using Studio. I type extremely fast and the commands issued with keystrokes are second nature to me now. Since the commands in the other program were different I had to concentrate more on this aspect which distracted me from the true and proper translation and, no matter which program I was using, this was always a factor.
In the end I just gave up. I told that agency I was no longer willing to use thier program. They still call me from time to time but I do very little for them any more. But since I have more work than I can handle anyway it wasn't a problem. So in the end, I suppose it depends on how established you are and how free you feel to say no.
Eileen ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Never been required to use a particular tool | May 4, 2015 |
But sometimes I wish agencies would impose a tool...
I have been in the situation where several translators are working on the same project, not necessarily simultaneously... presumably each with their own preferred CAT tool, which means no glossary sharing, no TM sharing, no possiblity to improve consistency and ultimately deliver a better document. For the particular projects I remember, the documents were quite repetitive with a lot of terminology shared across the various secti... See more But sometimes I wish agencies would impose a tool...
I have been in the situation where several translators are working on the same project, not necessarily simultaneously... presumably each with their own preferred CAT tool, which means no glossary sharing, no TM sharing, no possiblity to improve consistency and ultimately deliver a better document. For the particular projects I remember, the documents were quite repetitive with a lot of terminology shared across the various sections, it would have made much more sense for the agency to impose one CAT tool. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I really hate this | May 8, 2015 |
I am used to using my own CAT tool, with all of my glossaries and TMs, on my own computer.
I can appreciate why agencies find it quite convenient to set up their own system. However, they do not appear motivated to learn how all the different CAT tools can work together. I as a freelancer often know more about technical matters than the agencies - who presumably have a specialist IT team!
The online CAT tools are the worst. I tried to do a short online translation yest... See more I am used to using my own CAT tool, with all of my glossaries and TMs, on my own computer.
I can appreciate why agencies find it quite convenient to set up their own system. However, they do not appear motivated to learn how all the different CAT tools can work together. I as a freelancer often know more about technical matters than the agencies - who presumably have a specialist IT team!
The online CAT tools are the worst. I tried to do a short online translation yesterday. I was booted out 4 times and had to deal with 100s of annoying "inline tags" which really slowed things down. A job which would usually take me 15 minutes tops took 40 minutes and a lot of frustration. ▲ Collapse
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| See it from the bright side | May 8, 2015 |
As a professional translator, just like any craftsman, we have to learn to work with more tools, which opens possibilities to more work and at the end to more quality and income. I know to handle 8 CAT tools by now (+ a couple of online tools), of which I had to learn 3 in the last 2 months, and another one is coming, Weebee (I believe it is called). At the end, they all work more or less the same, you only have to push different buttons (and that can be a problem, I agree).
Is this... See more As a professional translator, just like any craftsman, we have to learn to work with more tools, which opens possibilities to more work and at the end to more quality and income. I know to handle 8 CAT tools by now (+ a couple of online tools), of which I had to learn 3 in the last 2 months, and another one is coming, Weebee (I believe it is called). At the end, they all work more or less the same, you only have to push different buttons (and that can be a problem, I agree).
Is this madness? Yes, absolutely! Why isn't there 1 tool for all? I even opened a forum with this question, but this 'Golden Cat' unfortunately doesn't exist (yet), so till some bright mind comes up with it, we have to make the best of it.
I do agree with most comments I read in this forum, but it also makes me think (not only this forum, but almost all of them): are we translators such a 'traditional' not to say 'conservative' group?' Everybody seems to have invented his/her own wheel and sticks to it as the best/only way possible of working, without considering any changes, only when prooven effective. (Studio? No Wordfast, no MemoQ, no......... Windows? No Mac, no Linux, no....... is the best!)
That is too bad. Instead of criticizing we could enhance our knowledge and even benefit of it. The possibilities are countless, so I would say, use them, for example learning to work with more tools, which opens possibilities to more work..........etc. (back to start).
We are suppliers, and as long as the client is demanding a certain tool, we can do two things, accept it or decline it.
[Edited at 2015-05-09 09:27 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-05-09 09:27 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I use my own CAT or no CAT | May 10, 2015 |
GudrunPancake wrote:
I am used to using my own CAT tool, with all of my glossaries and TMs, on my own computer.
...
The online CAT tools are the worst. I tried to do a short online translation yesterday. I was booted out 4 times and had to deal with 100s of annoying "inline tags" which really slowed things down. A job which would usually take me 15 minutes tops took 40 minutes and a lot of frustration.
Precisely. So I hope you charged for the extra time. I would!
One minute agencies want to save money by paying less for repetitions and matches. The next they will not let the translator optimise the process and share the advantages. There are a lot more advantages to a CAT than savings on repetitions - there is all the help with consistency and terminology. It takes time to accumulate, and what I have to offer is on MY CAT, the result of my work. I set my rates accordingly.
It is possible to align source and target texts with any CAT worth having, and it is also possible to exchange TMs, import glossaries and convert bilingual files from one CAT to another.
I simply tell agencies what CAT I use, and if they can't work with it, then they have to find another translator.
I am still offered more work than I can take on, using my CAT efficiently, so I have to weed out some of it. Plain and simple - and the good agencies have no problem with it.
| | | | | It's not about being scared of change | May 12, 2015 |
Robert Rietvelt wrote:
As a professional translator, just like any craftsman, we have to learn to work with more tools, which opens possibilities to more work and at the end to more quality and income. I know to handle 8 CAT tools by now (+ a couple of online tools), of which I had to learn 3 in the last 2 months, and another one is coming, Weebee (I believe it is called). At the end, they all work more or less the same, you only have to push different buttons (and that can be a problem, I agree).
Is this madness? Yes, absolutely! Why isn't there 1 tool for all? I even opened a forum with this question, but this 'Golden Cat' unfortunately doesn't exist (yet), so till some bright mind comes up with it, we have to make the best of it.
I do agree with most comments I read in this forum, but it also makes me think (not only this forum, but almost all of them): are we translators such a 'traditional' not to say 'conservative' group?' Everybody seems to have invented his/her own wheel and sticks to it as the best/only way possible of working, without considering any changes, only when prooven effective. (Studio? No Wordfast, no MemoQ, no......... Windows? No Mac, no Linux, no....... is the best!)
That is too bad. Instead of criticizing we could enhance our knowledge and even benefit of it. The possibilities are countless, so I would say, use them, for example learning to work with more tools, which opens possibilities to more work..........etc. (back to start).
We are suppliers, and as long as the client is demanding a certain tool, we can do two things, accept it or decline it.
[Edited at 2015-05-09 09:27 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-05-09 09:27 GMT]
This is a great general attitude to take to our profession, but most of the CAT tools implemented by agencies are to cut THEIR costs and streamline THEIR processes.
It might be true that there are also benefits for translators, but I have yet to find any (apart from when working in a team on group projects).
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@Gudrun
I actually agree with you, but unless you are in a situation that you can choose out of a hundred translations each day when you wake up, you have to make the best of it. So, be happy with what you get, and sometimes you have to make compromises. That is what entrepreneurship is all about!
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Diana Obermeyer
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:06
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
| That's called business | May 13, 2015 |
GudrunPancake wrote:
This is a great general attitude to take to our profession, but most of the CAT tools implemented by agencies are to cut THEIR costs and streamline THEIR processes.
An agency is a business, not a charity.
A business has to generate a profit.
If the agency manages to secure price A from the end customer, pays the translator rate B and incurs administration costs and overheads of C, its profit will be D.
A - (B+C) = D
Now, if A is the maximum it can charge while remaining competitive, then they have no room to maneuver. Thus A is fixed.
A reduction on D means it may not be worth their while staying in business. Any business will seek to maximise D.
This only leaves 2 options: Either pay lower rates or reduce their administration costs and overheads.
Which approach do you prefer?
[Edited at 2015-05-13 06:16 GMT]
| | | | | Entrepreneurship? | May 13, 2015 |
Robert Rietvelt wrote:
So, be happy with what you get, and sometimes you have to make compromises. That is what entrepreneurship is all about!
Collins dictionary: entrepreneur: 1. the owner or manager of a business enterprise who, by risk and initiative, attempts to make profits
Did you really mean what you said or did it come out wrong? Entrepreneurship is all about passively accepting conditions that place you at a disadvantage? Isn't entrepreneurship about fighting to place yourself in a position to make demands to your advantage?
| | | | Diana Obermeyer
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:06
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
| And isn't a compromise a form of initiative? | May 13, 2015 |
Michael Wetzel wrote: Robert Rietvelt wrote:
So, be happy with what you get, and sometimes you have to make compromises. That is what entrepreneurship is all about!
Collins dictionary: entrepreneur: 1. the owner or manager of a business enterprise who, by risk and initiative, attempts to make profits Did you really mean what you said or did it come out wrong? Entrepreneurship is all about passively accepting conditions that place you at a disadvantage? Isn't entrepreneurship about fighting to place yourself in a position to make demands to your advantage?
Good, I am not a translation buyer. But I buy many other services.
There is nothing more off-putting than service providers who are dramatic, play victim and try to convince me that something is overly complicated. Someone who stays calm - even if my requests are a little different from the norm - and offers a solution or ***compromise*** is more than a little more likely to get my business.
Making compromises is not about swallowing everything that's dished up by an outsourcer. It is a form of initiative: Finding a way to make things work that is beneficial to both parties... without whinging and moaning about it.
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