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Advice on ending a collaboration
Thread poster: Chloe Vaughn
Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 18:28
Danish to English
+ ...
How to recognise a manipulator Nov 29, 2015

I agree with Angela you're being manipulated. You may find this list of 30 traits of manipulators useful:

http://isabellenazare-aga.com/les-30-caracteristiques-du-manipulateur/

It's from Isabelle Nazare-Aga's book about manipulators, Les manipulateurs sont parmi nous, an excellent tool.

The list is in French, but even tho
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I agree with Angela you're being manipulated. You may find this list of 30 traits of manipulators useful:

http://isabellenazare-aga.com/les-30-caracteristiques-du-manipulateur/

It's from Isabelle Nazare-Aga's book about manipulators, Les manipulateurs sont parmi nous, an excellent tool.

The list is in French, but even though you don't mention French in your profile, you can probably make sense of it anyway.
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Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:28
Member (2015)
English to Spanish
big project? Nov 29, 2015

Is this a big project? Did you commit to finish a big project? If you did, then, I guess, yes, he could object that and hold your money. Otherwise, you can stop at any time and he'll have to pay everything owed at that point.

My suggestion: Hello XXXX, Please find attached my invoice for..... Please notice that I won't be accepting any further projects until the debt is cleared (something like this).

Then, if he doesn't pay, take further action.


 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
Break the cycle of manipulation Nov 29, 2015

cvaughn wrote:

The outsourcer has not been a prompt payer, but has payed me in part, though I do worry about what would happen if I stopped working immediately (which would be my preferred solution).


Now you see why he never issued POs and has only paid partially. He paid you partially to make sure you kept working for him in the expectation that you would get the rest of the money eventually, but the reason why he hasn't issued POs is that if you do decide to stop working for him, you will feel that you have no means of recovering your money. And his accusations of errors are probably intended to stop you insisting on receiving your money, or to deter you from taking legal action if he refuses to pay. It looks like he is attempting to break down your self-confidence. His argument that he can't train someone else up soon enough to replace you is nonsense. As others have said, you're not his employee, so you're free to walk away at any time.

From your description, it very much sounds as though this man has the personality traits of a sociopath: verbal abuse, lies, coercion/unreasonable demands, controlling behaviour, manipulation... As long as you keep working for him, I predict that he will continue to behave in the same way, and I very much doubt that he will agree to "let you go" after Christmas (not that it's his decision!) The only way to break this cycle and get your life back is to stand up for yourself and start saying no. If that means you may be unable to recover the rest of the money owed to you (at least not without a fight which may be unpleasant), I think you will simply have to accept that risk. You need to retake control of your own life and avoid people like him as they are deceitful and will wreck your life if you let them.

Looking back at the beginning of this situation, you can now see how this started. When you told him you were busy and needed time for other things, he didn't listen and you backed down. In future, my advice would be to set firm boundaries in similar situations and stick to them. Be aware of your rights and don't be afraid to stand up for yourself, politely but firmly.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 19:28
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Decide when you are free for his work, and stick to it Nov 29, 2015

cvaughn wrote:
Throughout the last three months I have had to cancel on a number of obligations due to the work I have been doing for him, and though I've tried to explain on numerous occasions that I
need time to devote to other things, little has changed, and my obligations have suffered.


From his perspective, the fact that you keep accepting jobs means that you still have sufficient time to do his work. Your problem is that you haven't decided how much time you are willing to set aside for translation work, and so you keep accepting more and more work because you haven't reached your non-existing limit yet.

The solution is to decide how many hours per day you are willing to spend on translation work, and if you already have enough work to fill those hours, then you must reply to any extra offers of work, saying "My schedule for today and tomorrow is full, but if you want, I can deliver the day after tomorrow" or something similar. Eventually, he'll have to find a second translator, because your schedule will fill up very quickly.

What activities there are in the rest of your schedule is none of the client's business. Whether it is a dentist appointment, or a promise you made to a friend to visit them, or the fact that you want to do your weekly shopping... the reasons why you only have X number of hours available per day is not something that you should tell your clients. If you have a very, very good relationship with some regular clients, then mentioning things like dentist appointments etc is acceptable, but generally the client should not be concerned with what you do in your non-working hours.

I spend many hours editing translations of mine which I consider to be good quality in the first place.


If he regularly asks you to double-check your work, without extra payment for the extra checks, then you must stop working for him. If he keeps sending you work, it must mean that he is happy with your work.

Additionally, he routinely loses his temper on the phone and becomes verbally abusive.


This is not relevant -- some clients are like that. However, if you are bothered by it (i.e. if his abuse causes you to submit to his demands), then you must end the relationship.

I want to discontinue the work as soon as possible, but want to give him some amount of time to find a replacement before I stop accepting jobs from him...


I understand that you feel some kind of obligation towards the poor client, and that is a normal part of being a translator. However, I would suggest that you deliberately limit the amount of work that you do for him per day. Even though you told him that you would work for him until the end of December, you can tell him right now that from 7 December (one week from now) you can only do 4 hours of work per weekday, or only 1000 words of translation per day. If he insists that you work weekends, simply tell him that unfortunately your schedule is full on weekends.

I suppose I am looking, in part, to assuage my conscience. Is a month an appropriate amount of time to give an outsourcer?


If you're going to stop working altogether, then a month is enough time to ease your conscience. That said, one can find a good translator via e.g. ProZ.com so quickly that you should not feel guilty even if you decide to stop after just one week. But... I suggest that you don't stop completely -- just limit your work for him to e.g. 4 hours per weekday. If he is angry or upset or accuses you of leaving him in the lurch, well, you never did agree to give him your entire time, did you?

I know it isn't possible for him to leave me a negative WWA on my profile, but might there be other consequences?


He might take much longer to pay for the work that you did so far.

==

cvaughn wrote:
He has asked me to re-do my invoices in Excel so that he does not have to double-check my calculations.


When clients ask me to invoice them in a format that is not my usual invoicing format, then I submit my usual invoicing format, and I submit another invoice in their format.

Samuel


[Edited at 2015-11-29 16:43 GMT]


 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:28
German to English
+ ...
some things to be aware of Nov 29, 2015

In freelance translation, anyone hiring you for your work is a customer. It is not an employment situation. But there are entities, usually agencies (some - not all) who treat it like they are employers. True employers give you a steady salary even when the work load is low, vacation pay, paid sick leave, and other benefits. So they are getting the benefits of employees without having to give what employers give.

Secondly we have had a situation for a few years now where people
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In freelance translation, anyone hiring you for your work is a customer. It is not an employment situation. But there are entities, usually agencies (some - not all) who treat it like they are employers. True employers give you a steady salary even when the work load is low, vacation pay, paid sick leave, and other benefits. So they are getting the benefits of employees without having to give what employers give.

Secondly we have had a situation for a few years now where people who know nothing about translation are offered the opportunity to "run their own agency" - a few hundred dollars gives them their instant agency. They could be unemployed bank clerks or shoe salesmen. They have a lot of wrong ideas and assumptions. All of these people will try to make money out of people who translate. They prey especially on the inexperienced.

On problem with this is that a novice begins her "training" with an entity like this, and then thinks this is how it works. That relationship becomes standard because it is all they've ever known. The fact of being a newbie in any field means you don't know things, and so you can be taken advantage of. I get the same kinds of e-mails that you got when this person first contacted you. But I've been in the field for over 25 years so I know what to think of them.

Diversity of clients is the translator's friend. If a client wants to have a business relationship with you where he gets priority service from you, then he has to earn that privilege. Why would you put his interests above those of another client? Maybe if he pays you a monthly retainer fee. Or if he pays you top rates (say $0.20/word) in a timely manner. Do not devalue your own worth, and do not feel overly "grateful" when anyone hires you (when I was new, I did ).

He has made a lot of assumptions, and you have fulfilled his expectations because you did not know that this is not now it goes. His assumptions are wrong. He does not have any claims on you and your services. Just make sure that you get paid for the work you have already done. If the payment due is a small amount you might have to cut your losses. Diversify.
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Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:28
German to English
+ ...
"ending" a collaboration Nov 29, 2015

I forgot to say that there isn't really anything to end. Each transaction with a client is a separate thing with a beginning, a middle, and and end. When a project is terminated and a new request comes in, you need to decide for each and every project, "Do I want to do this project?" The answer then is yes or no. It is actually that simple.

 
Michele Fauble
Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:28
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Simple solution Nov 29, 2015

Notify him that you are raising your rate. Quote a rate that is so high that he will not accept it, or if he does, is so high that it is worth the disadvantages of working with him.

 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 18:28
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Let's just be clear about your rights Nov 29, 2015

Peter Shortall wrote:
Now you see why he never issued POs and has only paid partially. He paid you partially to make sure you kept working for him in the expectation that you would get the rest of the money eventually, but the reason why he hasn't issued POs is that if you do decide to stop working for him, you will feel that you have no means of recovering your money.

@ the OP: I understand what Peter's saying but, as you're inexperienced, I want to put your rights in black and white for you.

You received emails from this client asking you to do work for him; you delivered the work; he accepted the work; there have been no complaints regarding quality. All this mean that you had a contract for the work done and you fulfilled your part of the contract. If he doesn't pay on time then he will be in breach of contract. A PO by itself does absolutely nothing to help you secure payment. It simply makes all the elements 100% clear as it puts all the relevant data in one place. If the exchange of emails included word-count and rate per word, and/or the total fee for the job, then that's just as binding as a PO. If he doesn't pay then you go through the normal escalation procedures to get your money.

Of course, the fact that you refuse to do any future work for him does not affect payment for past work one iota. Stand firm on that. If he complains, just stay cool. If he's abusive, still stay cool but be sure to refuse phone calls so he has to be abusive in emails - you need to have that audit trail if things get gritty. If he doesn't pay on time, please warn others through an entry on the BB.

Good luck and I wish you better in the future.


 
Chloe Vaughn
Chloe Vaughn  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:28
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Raising rate Nov 29, 2015

Michele: Interesting idea, one I hadn't thought of. I might try it, however at this point I think it's best to simply get out from under the collaboration in the most honest and direct way possible. I was being paid .08 EUR at the beginning, which was then reduced to .06 EUR after about a month. I think suggesting a higher rate might just make him angrier than simply ceasing further work. Thanks again to everyone for the support.

 
Joakim Braun
Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 19:28
German to Swedish
+ ...
Read up on debt collection Nov 29, 2015

cvaughn wrote:

I am worried that I won't receive payment if I simply cut off communication.



Sooner or later, you'll run into a client who doesn't pay.
Read up on how to collect small claims debt - it's probably much less complicated than you believe. It's quite difficult to avoid paying a creditor who has done his homework, and very bad business to do so out of spite.

Also, never let uninvoiced work pile up for dodgy clients (or any clients at all, really).


 
Gudrun Wolfrath
Gudrun Wolfrath  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:28
English to German
+ ...
Stop working for this client Nov 29, 2015

[quote]cvaughn wrote:

...I was being paid .08 EUR at the beginning, which was then reduced to .06 EUR after about a month...

Being the language service provider you are the one to increase/reduce rates. And no, there is no need to put up with verbal abuse, which often goes along with other kinds of "strange behaviour".


 
nordiste
nordiste  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:28
English to French
+ ...
time to say good bye ! Nov 29, 2015

cvaughn wrote:

Michele: Interesting idea, one I hadn't thought of. I might try it, however at this point I think it's best to simply get out from under the collaboration in the most honest and direct way possible. I was being paid .08 EUR at the beginning, which was then reduced to .06 EUR after about a month. I think suggesting a higher rate might just make him angrier than simply ceasing further work. Thanks again to everyone for the support.


Please... why would you worry to make him angry or happy?
Were you happy to have your rate reduced? what was the reason?

At this step I think the best for you is to stop this "business" relationship from hell immediatly.
From Monday on you just send and invoice all the remaining jobs and don't accept any new jobs. Ask firmly for your money before the end of the year "for tax reasons".
Don't get phone calls and don't answer emails from him. Have a message on your phone saying "sorry, I am not available at the moment". Set an automatic email reply with the same message.

There is a risk that you cannot get paid - but if you keep working under these conditions do you think there is no risk ?


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 18:28
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Don't let him bully you like that Nov 29, 2015

cvaughn wrote:
...I was being paid .08 EUR at the beginning, which was then reduced to .06 EUR after about a month...

As Gudrun has said, it isn't the client's place to reduce your rate. This is all the wrong way round!

BTW, see the 'community rates' here: http://search.proz.com/employers/rates
These are compiled statistically from the rates that translators on the site declare. And they are at the lower end of the professional market, if anything.


 
Ilan Rubin (X)
Ilan Rubin (X)  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 21:28
Russian to English
Outsource? Nov 29, 2015

Why not just outsource to the translator who offered to help? And / or to some other translators? And take a cut for quality control / checking their work?

 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
POs and contracts in the eyes of the law Nov 29, 2015

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Peter Shortall wrote:
Now you see why he never issued POs and has only paid partially. He paid you partially to make sure you kept working for him in the expectation that you would get the rest of the money eventually, but the reason why he hasn't issued POs is that if you do decide to stop working for him, you will feel that you have no means of recovering your money.

@ the OP: I understand what Peter's saying but, as you're inexperienced, I want to put your rights in black and white for you.

You received emails from this client asking you to do work for him; you delivered the work; he accepted the work; there have been no complaints regarding quality. All this mean that you had a contract for the work done and you fulfilled your part of the contract. If he doesn't pay on time then he will be in breach of contract. A PO by itself does absolutely nothing to help you secure payment. It simply makes all the elements 100% clear as it puts all the relevant data in one place. If the exchange of emails included word-count and rate per word, and/or the total fee for the job, then that's just as binding as a PO. If he doesn't pay then you go through the normal escalation procedures to get your money.



Yes, you're right Sheila. I said "you will feel that you have no means..." as this is what the client presumably wants cvaughan to think, whereas in fact that isn't the case - unless the requests for editing mentioned in cvaughan's first post are motivated by poor quality, I don't know. Anyway, as you say, in the eyes of the law, there doesn't have to be a PO for a contract to exist. A contract doesn't have to take the form of a separate document, emails are sufficient.

cvaughan wrote:
I was being paid .08 EUR at the beginning, which was then reduced to .06 EUR after about a month.



Here's another example where he takes and you give: you agree to one rate, then he indicates he wants to pay a lower rate, and you agree to it. And if I understand correctly, in effect, he isn't even paying you the lower rate yet as he hasn't paid your invoices in full. You have effectively sanctioned that behaviour by continuing to work for him despite the partial non-payment. This is why I say that setting firm boundaries and then sticking to them is important, you can get a better deal for yourself that way.

I'm glad to see that you plan to stop working for him. It will feel good when he doesn't bother you any more!


 
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Advice on ending a collaboration







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