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Blue Board and Low Rates
Thread poster: Doan Quang
Doan Quang
Doan Quang  Identity Verified
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Agreed Sep 23, 2016

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Simple: ask them upfront whether your usual rate is an acceptable starting point in the negotiation about the job/cooperation. I always report my rates beforehand and supply information and fill forms only after it has been explicitely established that they are willing to pay my rate (or around that rate).


Fully agreed, thank you!


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
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Blue Board Sep 23, 2016

Doan Quang wrote:

I am wondering how could this agency have avg. 5 for all 201 entries


That is a constant problem with the Blue Board. There are many threads discussing it, most recently this one:

http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_job_systems/305164-prozcom_staff_deleting_blue_board_entry.html


 
Doan Quang
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Very informative and helpful Sep 23, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

Doan Quang wrote:

I am wondering how could this agency have avg. 5 for all 201 entries


That is a constant problem with the Blue Board. There are many threads discussing it, most recently this one:

http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_job_systems/305164-prozcom_staff_deleting_blue_board_entry.html


Lots of informative and helpful discussions, and I may have to stop posting this in the future.
Thank you, Tom!


 
Paweł Hamerski
Paweł Hamerski
Poland
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My own sentiments exactly Sep 23, 2016

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Simple: ask them upfront whether your usual rate is an acceptable starting point in the negotiation about the job/cooperation. I always report my rates beforehand and supply information and fill forms only after it has been explicitely established that they are willing to pay my rate (or around that rate).


 
esperantisto
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No, they did not Sep 23, 2016

cloudhunter wrote:
So my question is - did they want to edit my BB to a higher note if he had paid after 3 months?


No, they did not. They probably wanted you to update your comment according to the current situation, but you still could leave 1 for your LWA for that agency.


 
jyuan_us
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Please stop educating people about what BB is about. Sep 23, 2016

Walter Landesman wrote:
NO, that is NOT the issue. Please bother reading above or the Blue Board rules. 201 translators have worked for that agency, have agreed on a certain rate, had maybe nice PMs and were paid promptly. That's it. That's what the BB is about, not about rates, but about reilability and honesty. Rates are agreed among the parties involved.


We all know it. The OP may have been confused what BB is about but he did make some point about why the low paying agency got so many 5s. In other words, why so many people are "willing to work again" with this company at a rate around $0.03 is a issue that is worth a thinking.

Even if this was not implied in the OP's original posting, his posting did trigger me to think about this issue.

[Edited at 2016-09-23 07:19 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-09-23 07:20 GMT]


 
Doan Quang
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Start with rate first Sep 23, 2016

jyuan_us wrote:

We all know it. The OP may have been confused what BB is about but he did make some point about why the low paying agency got so many 5s. In other words, why so many people are "willing to work again" with this company at a rate around $0.03 is a issue that is worth a thinking.

Even if this was not implied in the OP's original posting, his posting did trigger me to think about this issue.

[Edited at 2016-09-23 07:19 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-09-23 07:20 GMT]


Sorry for the OP was not clear but I really meant why so many people are "willing to work again" with this company at a low rate; and thanks to Tomás's advice, I would therefore start with rate first in order to not waste my time in the future.


 
Lianne van de Ven
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Disagree Sep 23, 2016

Walter Landesman wrote:

John Fossey wrote:

The BlueBoard rating only relates to whether colleagues are willing to work with them again. It has nothing to do with rates. You can only give them a rating based on whether you are willing to work with them again. If you accepted a rate of $0.03 per word and they paid it, then this is not a basis for a low rating, since you entered into an agreement with them and they respected it.

On the other hand, the question could be asked, why would you accept a rate of $0.03? They are free to offer any rate they want, just like you are free to reject any rate you want.


Agree. High or low rates do not make an agency good or bad. You may accept or reject them.


That is odd. The BlueBoard is about the willingness to work with an agency again. I don't see why that should not include consideration of their pay rates. An agency that pays better than average is certainly a lot better than one who pays only 25% of the going rate. If you accept the low rate, you can still say you won't work with them again - because of low rates.

It would be ideal if BlueBoard ratings reflected the real willingness to work with agencies, including an evaluation of their pay rates. Maybe a good business idea?

[Edited at 2016-09-23 17:01 GMT]


 
Yasutomo Kanazawa
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Very true Sep 23, 2016

[quote]Walter Landesman wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

How come 201 linguists who have been paid around 0.03 per word have all given this agency a score of 5?

That's the issue. So OP's question is well grounded.

[Edited at 2016-09-22 20:36 GMT]


NO, that is NOT the issue. Please bother reading above or the Blue Board rules. 201 translators have worked for that agency, have agreed on a certain rate, had maybe nice PMs and were paid promptly. That's it. That's what the BB is about, not about rates, but about reilability and honesty. Rates are agreed among the parties involved.


 
Robert Forstag
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"Low rate" a legitimate factor to consider in posting WWA score Sep 23, 2016

Lianne van de Ven wrote:
The BlueBoard is about the willingness to work with an agency again. I don't see why that should not include consideration of their payrates. An agency that pays better than average is certainly a lot better than one who pays only 25% of the going rate. If you accept the low rate, you can still say you won't work with them again - because of low rates.

It would be ideal if BlueBoard ratings reflected the real willingness to work with agencies, including an evaluation of their payrates. Maybe a good business idea?


I agree with Lianne and Alvaro here. "Rates" are one among a number of factors that a translator may consider in deciding how willing they are to collaborate again with a given agency, and acceptance of a low rate on a given occasion does not in itself mean that a freelancer accepting said rate was happy to have done so, or would readily do so again in the future.

[Edited at 2016-09-23 17:03 GMT]


 
Lianne van de Ven
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Where is this stated? Sep 23, 2016

Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:

NO, that is NOT the issue. Please bother reading above or the Blue Board rules. 201 translators have worked for that agency, have agreed on a certain rate, had maybe nice PMs and were paid promptly. That's it. That's what the BB is about, not about rates, but about reilability and honesty. Rates are agreed among the parties involved.



Where do you have that information from?
This is what I am seeing regarding general statements about the Blueboard:

From this page: http://www.proz.com/blueboard/
The Blue Board
A searchable database of language job outsourcers with feedback from service providers.

And the first of rules: http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=blue_board_bb_blueboard
The ProZ.com Blue Board is provided as a resource for referencing outsourcers of translation, interpreting and other language-related work, and for expressing willingness to work again with given outsourcers.


[Edited at 2016-09-23 16:59 GMT]


 
John Fossey
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Begging the question Sep 23, 2016

John Fossey wrote:

The BlueBoard rating only relates to whether colleagues are willing to work with them again. It has nothing to do with rates. You can only give them a rating based on whether you are willing to work with them again. If you accepted a rate of $0.03 per word and they paid it, then this is not a basis for a low rating, since you entered into an agreement with them and they respected it.

On the other hand, the question could be asked, why would you accept a rate of $0.03? They are free to offer any rate they want, just like you are free to reject any rate you want.


I accept the argument that low rates could be a legitimate reason for a reduced WWA score. But it begs the question, why did the translator accept the low rate in the first place?

A WWA score requires that the translator has already completed at least one translation for the outsourcer. So if the outsourcer offers very low rates, the translator was quite free to walk away but didn't.


 
Lianne van de Ven
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That is unfortunately true Sep 23, 2016

John Fossey wrote:

John Fossey wrote:

The BlueBoard rating only relates to whether colleagues are willing to work with them again. It has nothing to do with rates. You can only give them a rating based on whether you are willing to work with them again. If you accepted a rate of $0.03 per word and they paid it, then this is not a basis for a low rating, since you entered into an agreement with them and they respected it.

On the other hand, the question could be asked, why would you accept a rate of $0.03? They are free to offer any rate they want, just like you are free to reject any rate you want.


I accept the argument that low rates could be a legitimate reason for a reduced WWA score. But it begs the question, why did the translator accept the low rate in the first place?

A WWA score requires that the translator has already completed at least one translation for the outsourcer. So if the outsourcer offers very low rates, the translator was quite free to walk away but didn't.


Note: The title of my post is meant to refer to "A WWA score requires that the translator has already completed at least one translation for the outsourcer.'

I have never really thought about this, but I sure have seen feedback about low rates. Apparently, translators sometimes accept jobs below the rates that they wish to get. They may change their mind about rates or eventually are able to charge more. They may have had to argue about prices all the time, or the agency paid well for initial jobs and came back with only cheaper ones. They may have tried out how an agency works or maybe they took a very small job only in order to be able to leave such feedback! Just trying to think outside of the box.

When I review feedback by translators on the BlueBoard, I take into account the apparent experience of the translator and the country from which he or she is reporting. Even then, rates probably have more to do with the language than with a country of residence. If I would live in a country with a lower standard of living, I would lower my rates somewhat to be more competitive, but I won't just match that standard of living. These factors all play into evaluating rates.

Generally, rates that agencies are willing to pay is valuable information. However, you never really know what an agency is willing to pay any given individual on any given day.


[Edited at 2016-09-23 18:49 GMT]


 
Mirko Mainardi
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Italy
Local time: 10:11
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English to Italian
Not really Sep 23, 2016

John Fossey wrote:

John Fossey wrote:

The BlueBoard rating only relates to whether colleagues are willing to work with them again. It has nothing to do with rates. You can only give them a rating based on whether you are willing to work with them again. If you accepted a rate of $0.03 per word and they paid it, then this is not a basis for a low rating, since you entered into an agreement with them and they respected it.

On the other hand, the question could be asked, why would you accept a rate of $0.03? They are free to offer any rate they want, just like you are free to reject any rate you want.


I accept the argument that low rates could be a legitimate reason for a reduced WWA score. But it begs the question, why did the translator accept the low rate in the first place?

A WWA score requires that the translator has already completed at least one translation for the outsourcer. So if the outsourcer offers very low rates, the translator was quite free to walk away but didn't.


Actually, the reason for accepting a particular rate would fall outside of the scope of the LWA score, while, on the other hand, citing that low rate as a reason for not working again with a client would be perfectly legitimate and in line with the present BB rules. Or do they say this is not allowed, by any chance?

Just to make an example, I could decide to work for a low rate because I have nothing better to do at the moment and/or because the client described what looked like an extremely easy project... but then it turned out it wasn't so easy after all, or the end-client started acting up, or whatever, so I decide I'd leave a 2, saying the client pays rates that are simply too low for the amount of work involved.

Or, I could even decide to accept a tiny project with a super-tight deadline at a ridiculous rate only and specifically in order to leave a 1 for that outsourcer. IMO, that would be the epitome of community service and I would be extremely grateful to anyone who did that.


 
Robert Forstag
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Two possible reasons Sep 23, 2016

John Fossey wrote:

I accept the argument that low rates could be a legitimate reason for a reduced WWA score. But it begs the question, why did the translator accept the low rate in the first place?

A WWA score requires that the translator has already completed at least one translation for the outsourcer. So if the outsourcer offers very low rates, the translator was quite free to walk away but didn't.


1.
Translator accepted a rate they were less than thrilled with because they were going through a slow period and the rate offered, while low, was not appalling. ("Acceptance" doesn't always imply "contentment." After all, you might accept poorly prepared food at a restaurant because you are in a hurry, have more important things to deal with at that time, or simply can't be bothered to complain. This state of affairs hardly obliges you to give said establishment a high rating on yelp.com.)
2.
The rate might have seemed reasonable upon acceptance, but turned out to be unreasonable because there were time-consuming elements of the project that were introduced *after* assignment (e.g., re formatting, additional or changed text, etc.).

[Edited at 2016-09-23 18:49 GMT]


 
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