Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
First-come, first-served type of agencies
Thread poster: Baran Keki
Baran Keki
Baran Keki  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
Jul 8, 2020

There are translation agencies that send job notification emails to dozens of translators and choose the fastest one to click the 'accept task' button. Some of the agencies that fall into this category are quite well-known (how I wish I could name some of them so you could get a better picture of what I'm talking about) with great BB records (good rates, interesting projects etc. etc.)
When these agencies send you a job notification email you usually have 5 to 10 seconds to accept the task
... See more
There are translation agencies that send job notification emails to dozens of translators and choose the fastest one to click the 'accept task' button. Some of the agencies that fall into this category are quite well-known (how I wish I could name some of them so you could get a better picture of what I'm talking about) with great BB records (good rates, interesting projects etc. etc.)
When these agencies send you a job notification email you usually have 5 to 10 seconds to accept the task before it 'gets taken' by another translator (In the case of one very famous French translation agency you literally have less than 3 seconds, and for some reason you get those emails at ungodly hours if you're living in or close to Europe, and I recently found out that you are removed from their notification list if you remain 'inactive' for 3 months, meaning if you fail to accept a job in the last 3 months).
Subject matters range from legal contracts to games, to geology surveys, to user manuals, to bikini catalogs, you name it! They usually ask you to use their extremely annoying and user-unfriendly online CAT tools and I very much doubt your translation is proofread/checked by another translator.
I've never understood the logic behind this seemingly 'egalitarian' system of choosing translators based not on their areas of specialization, experience, knowledge, proven track record, overall quality, but on the basis of their ability to quickly click on the left mouse button.
I'd like to stress it again: the agencies I'm talking about (at least some of them) are not some Mickey Mouse agencies with bad payment practices, they are major ones, and one of them is part of a large European group that consists of well-respected translation agencies (I may even have seen the positive entries of some of the frequent forum members on their BB).
Does anyone have any idea how a business model like this (namely entrusting a task to a person who has no demonstrable experience and knowledge required for that task) successfully works? How they manage to please their clients with the quality of their end products?
I had the opportunity to ask this question to a couple of PMs from that French translation agency, they couldn't provide a satisfactory answer.
Collapse


Tom in London
The Misha
Barbara Carrara
Sona Ozorakova
Philip Lees
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Georgi Kovachev
 
Spamalot
Spamalot
Austria
Local time: 13:49
Member (2009)
German to English
+ ...
Yup, know about those Jul 8, 2020



[Edited at 2020-07-09 07:52 GMT]


Wilsonn Perez Reyes
 
Baran Keki
Baran Keki  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your reply! Jul 8, 2020

I can totally understand the bidding system: choosing the cheapest translator for the job. But why the 'fastest one the accept the task'? This is what I really want to understand. That French translation agency I mentioned pays a decent per word rate btw. I'd love to get jobs from them, but unfortunately I'm not as quick with the mouse as I used to be...

 
Spamalot
Spamalot
Austria
Local time: 13:49
Member (2009)
German to English
+ ...
Not the click speed counts Jul 8, 2020



[Edited at 2020-07-09 07:52 GMT]


Daniel Williams
Wilsonn Perez Reyes
 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:49
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Thank you Baran Jul 8, 2020

Thank you Baran. Yours is one of the most interesting posts I've read in a long time and as I read it, I recognised my own experience.

Baran Keki wrote:

.....agencies that send job notification emails to dozens of translators and choose the fastest one to click the 'accept task' button.


That seems to be the only criterion. Job notifications like this are almost an everyday occurrence. I seem to receive at least one every day.

....agencies ....with great BB records


I know many long-time Prozians share my opinion that Blue Board ratings should be taken with a very large pinch of salt. The Blue Board is not much of a guide to anything unless the ratings include a significant number of 2s, 3s, and 4s, with credible comments attached to them. An agency that boasts of an unblemished record of straight 5s all the way through, over 3 or 4 years, with no hint of anything that might even be slightly worth mentioning as a concern, is an agency that arouses my suspicions.

you usually have 5 to 10 seconds to accept the task before it 'gets taken' by another translator


Not infrequently, the task has already been taken even though I've only just received the notification!

I recently found out that you are removed from their notification list if you remain 'inactive' for 3 months, meaning if you fail to accept a job in the last 3 months)


I didn't know that. So I suppose I'll have to keep on pointlessly responding to job notifications - even though I have never, EVER, been accepted for one. But I suspect that if Proz were to do away with that requirement, nobody at all would respond to those job notifications!

usually ask you to use their extremely annoying and user-unfriendly online CAT tools


Yes, and this requirement adds the cost of extra workload/learning curve to the price you're able to quote for your services.

choosing translators ....on the basis of their ability to quickly click on the left mouse button.


Indeed - it assumes we're all ready, in position in front of our computers, not doing anything else and with all the data required (rates, CV, deadlines, language pair, specialisms, etc.) already configured as necessary so that one click on the mouse will instantly send it off.

It's impossible to ever get any jobs in this way - and in more than 20 years' membership of Proz, I never have.

[Edited at 2020-07-08 10:47 GMT]


Baran Keki
Barbara Carrara
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Henrique Silva
Henrique Silva  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 09:49
English to Portuguese
First-come first-mistake! Jul 8, 2020

[There are even agencies with very serious projects like trial protocols (which is my domain) posting jobs like this, which is a real manner to deliver very poor quality texts]Baran Keki wrote:

There are translation agencies that send job notification emails to dozens of translators and choose the fastest one to click the 'accept task' button. Some of the agencies that fall into this category are quite well-known (how I wish I could name some of them so you could get a better pictur
... See more
[There are even agencies with very serious projects like trial protocols (which is my domain) posting jobs like this, which is a real manner to deliver very poor quality texts]Baran Keki wrote:

There are translation agencies that send job notification emails to dozens of translators and choose the fastest one to click the 'accept task' button. Some of the agencies that fall into this category are quite well-known (how I wish I could name some of them so you could get a better picture of what I'm talking about) with great BB records (good rates, interesting projects etc. etc.)
When these agencies send you a job notification email you usually have 5 to 10 seconds to accept the task before it 'gets taken' by another translator (In the case of one very famous French translation agency you literally have less than 3 seconds, and for some reason you get those emails at ungodly hours if you're living in or close to Europe, and I recently found out that you are removed from their notification list if you remain 'inactive' for 3 months, meaning if you fail to accept a job in the last 3 months).
Subject matters range from legal contracts to games, to geology surveys, to user manuals, to bikini catalogs, you name it! They usually ask you to use their extremely annoying and user-unfriendly online CAT tools and I very much doubt your translation is proofread/checked by another translator.
I've never understood the logic behind this seemingly 'egalitarian' system of choosing translators based not on their areas of specialization, experience, knowledge, proven track record, overall quality, but on the basis of their ability to quickly click on the left mouse button.
I'd like to stress it again: the agencies I'm talking about (at least some of them) are not some Mickey Mouse agencies with bad payment practices, they are major ones, and one of them is part of a large European group that consists of well-respected translation agencies (I may even have seen the positive entries of some of the frequent forum members on their BB).
Does anyone have any idea how a business model like this (namely entrusting a task to a person who has no demonstrable experience and knowledge required for that task) successfully works? How they manage to please their clients with the quality of their end products?
I had the opportunity to ask this question to a couple of PMs from that French translation agency, they couldn't provide a satisfactory answer. [/I totally agree with you. And there are even agencies posting very serious projects, such as trial protocols, as a first-come first-get kind of offer. I've tried several times to click immeadiately, but nothing happened. Shame on them!The result? Very poor quality texts!]
Collapse


Baran Keki
 
Rosalind Haigh
Rosalind Haigh  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:49
German to English
+ ...
Been there too Jul 8, 2020

I've had the same experience with a well-known and successful agency that has made substantial progress in the market over the last 15 years or so.

When I first worked with them, they sent me interesting projects, I had regular contact with the same project managers and they paid me a good rate. Then almost overnight they switched to the first response system, stopped sending me decent work and instead began asking me to revise horrendous translations undertaken by "translators" who
... See more
I've had the same experience with a well-known and successful agency that has made substantial progress in the market over the last 15 years or so.

When I first worked with them, they sent me interesting projects, I had regular contact with the same project managers and they paid me a good rate. Then almost overnight they switched to the first response system, stopped sending me decent work and instead began asking me to revise horrendous translations undertaken by "translators" who did not understand anything but the simplest source texts and had limited powers of expression in their native English. The rates they offered for this revision were also poor, and I had to complete checklists to justify the ratings I allocated to these translators. I very soon gave up working with them at all.

I suspect that by default many of the translators who respond rapidly to the mass email requests are cheaper, less competent, less professional and more desperate for work. The less reputable agencies (even if they are large and well-known) lap them up, pay poor rates to the revisers too, and make a stonking great profit by doing so.
Collapse


Jo Macdonald
Baran Keki
Barbara Carrara
Sona Ozorakova
 
Baran Keki
Baran Keki  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
Apparently no quality issues! Jul 8, 2020

Henrique Silva wrote:

[/I totally agree with you. And there are even agencies posting very serious projects, such as trial protocols, as a first-come first-get kind of offer. I've tried several times to click immeadiately, but nothing happened. Shame on them!The result? Very poor quality texts!]

I was fortunate enough to get a 15k word project from that French agency last summer. But later I found out that it was only a part of a larger project (website translation of a gaming platform). It was kind of funny (or rather ironic) how I found that out: I saw a translator post a few Kudoz questions while I was working on that project, asking about the same terms I was searching for. I mentioned the asker's name to the PM in passing and she was very surprised at how I knew that translator was also working on that project.
Imagine a 50k word project being divided up by several translators in this manner. I used different words for the terms asked by that translator as I didn't like the Kudoz suggestions. I mean different words, different styles, different types of errors etc etc... But apparently no quality issues whatsoever as I didn't hear from the agency and I got paid on time handsomely.
Another thing about these kind of agencies is that they send a link to their online CAT tool without any reference material and expect you to work totally out of context. But again, everything goes fine (no matter how many errors you make) and you don't hear from them about quality issues.


Tom in London
Jean Baptiste NDUNGUTSE
 
Jocelin Meunier
Jocelin Meunier  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:49
English to French
+ ...
A thought Jul 8, 2020

Apart from every answer I can read, I think this first-come first-served method is also a matter of cost. Translators will be less enclined to rais their rates if they understand that they're first and foremost interchangeable. If they rely on you for translations on construction, they will be in quite a pickle if you decide that you won't do any work unless they raise their rates.
On the other hand, if they treat every translator as interchangeable, not only they can pick anyone, but they
... See more
Apart from every answer I can read, I think this first-come first-served method is also a matter of cost. Translators will be less enclined to rais their rates if they understand that they're first and foremost interchangeable. If they rely on you for translations on construction, they will be in quite a pickle if you decide that you won't do any work unless they raise their rates.
On the other hand, if they treat every translator as interchangeable, not only they can pick anyone, but they can lower their rates and wait for the first one to pick whatever project they propose. And divide said project between many interchangeable translators so they can boast that they can deliver a 100k project faster than a kitty sneeze.
Collapse


Yolanda Broad
Sheila Wilson
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Christine Andersen
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:49
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Choosing their own business model is the client's prerogative Jul 8, 2020

The ground rules are clear; the rate is mentioned there's no scamming going on. If you don't like their business model, you don't have to answer or even be on their database.

I used to work with one of the European groups and was quite happy with the arrangement until they unilaterally decided to alter the payment terms -- and still didn't manage to pay on time! We parted company then. Nowadays, my only experience of this type of model is with a client whose texts are always on a si
... See more
The ground rules are clear; the rate is mentioned there's no scamming going on. If you don't like their business model, you don't have to answer or even be on their database.

I used to work with one of the European groups and was quite happy with the arrangement until they unilaterally decided to alter the payment terms -- and still didn't manage to pay on time! We parted company then. Nowadays, my only experience of this type of model is with a client whose texts are always on a similar topic. I really don't need to examine them as I know I can do them. And I know exactly what the rate will be. I used to do a lot of business every month with that client, and I wasn't any faster on the button then than I am now. But we've had a couple of disagreements over the years, notably when they expected me to translate their own website for the same very low rate that I do those texts that come out of my TM virtually pretranslated. Nowadays, I never seem to receive their notifications until after the job has gone. So I imagine there are staged deliveries: the "favoured few" get notified first, followed by the others.
Collapse


Mervyn Henderson (X)
Nathan Russell
Elena Feriani
Christine Andersen
 
Paul Dixon
Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 09:49
Portuguese to English
+ ...
When you get the notification... Jul 8, 2020

One such agency which usually has microjobs doesn't even send me the notifications of EN>PT translations even though I offer the pair. This means that all the work apparently goes to one person. I suspect this because one day this person posted something like 'I'll be on holiday until...' - only then did I get a job in this pair.
PT>EN not much better, as I have a low number of points.


 
Paul Dixon
Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 09:49
Portuguese to English
+ ...
The 60-day trend Jul 8, 2020

Another worrying trend is the growing number of companies that pay after 60 days (or even longer). Why should we translators be forced to wait that long? Our bills don't wait, and when they do there is hefty interest on top. The ideal situation for us to get paid on completion of the work - especially in the dire financial situation in the world today as a result of covid. At most, some five days later so the client has time to check for quality.

 
Baran Keki
Baran Keki  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
Clarification Jul 8, 2020

My question is not about the bidding system or about the rates offered by such companies. I'm just trying to make sense of a business model where a company puts its trust in a person who may or may not have the skills and competence required to do a particular job.
Say you have a 5k word insurance related content that needs to be translated into a certain language, wouldn't it make sense to contact a few translators who actually specialize in translating insurance (or at least legal) text
... See more
My question is not about the bidding system or about the rates offered by such companies. I'm just trying to make sense of a business model where a company puts its trust in a person who may or may not have the skills and competence required to do a particular job.
Say you have a 5k word insurance related content that needs to be translated into a certain language, wouldn't it make sense to contact a few translators who actually specialize in translating insurance (or at least legal) texts? What is the point in sending this job notification to all translators working in that language pair and award it to the first person that clicks the 'accept button'? I really don't understand this.
I mean it's very easy to be added to a translation agency's database by filling out an online form and passing a translation test (all you have to do is ask a more seasoned translator/friend to translate it for you if you can't deal with the material). Once you've done that you start receiving notification emails and trying your luck at translating texts that you have no clue and experience whatsoever. It doesn't take a genius to predict the end result.
This approach (first-come, first-served) sounds like a guaranteed bankruptcy to me, but apparently there are some large and successful translation agencies (one with 4.7 rating with 80 entries, part of a group that starts with the letter 'A', I hope I dropped enough clues here) that thrives on this business model.
A funny note: There is one German translation agency that uses this model. I was able to get their notifications on time and on a few occasions, out of desperation, I clicked the button (without perusing the source material of course, there's no time for that!) quicker than others to get a few boring medical jobs (needless to say I don't specialize in medicine). I stopped receiving job notifications from them right after I questioned the absurdity of their first-come, first-served system. I think they took umbrage.
Collapse


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Translation as a commodity Jul 9, 2020

If all the translators on your list have passed a test, and a job doesn’t require any real specialist expertise (and most don’t), why waste time contacting individual translators?

I’m not advocating this approach, but it makes as much sense to me as sending work to your cheapest translator.


Sheila Wilson
Veronika Hoffmann
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:49
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Hefty Jul 9, 2020

Paul Dixon wrote:

..... there is hefty interest on top.....


That's why (some) agencies pay as late as possible. They want to earn the interest on the money they are keeping from you. Imagine you are an agency with outstanding payments, due to a large number of translators, amounting to a total of, say, € 20,000 in any month. If you put that €20K in a high-interest account or investment for 3 months, you'll be earning a tidy little sum.

That's why they do it.


Baran Keki
DZiW (X)
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

First-come, first-served type of agencies







Trados Business Manager Lite
Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio

Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.

More info »
Anycount & Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000

Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.

More info »