ProZ.com Translation Forums

reported speech | just "can" and "send"

milka_oka — Wed, 30 May 2012 06:13:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: reported speech
Poster: milka_oka
Post title: just "can" and "send"

[quote]Lingua 5B wrote:

[quote]Helena Chavarria wrote:

[quote]milka_oka wrote:

Hello, I'm new here and I need to have an answer if it is possible to say(in the situation when a half an hour ago I spoke with a person):
Person to who I called said that the signed documents can be SCANNED and send via mail.
Or we need to past tense to this sentence?
Please comment.
Thanks. [/quote]

The person I called told me the signed documents can/could be scanned and sent by email (post? "Mail" refers to a letter sent in the traditional manner).

You can use either "can" or "could" but there are other mistakes in the fragment. [/quote]

Yes, and the reference will be slightly changed when one is used instead of the other (can/could), however, in some cases of indirect speech having both options is not possible (i.e. the sequence must be implemented).

[Edited at 2012-05-29 23:14 GMT] [/quote]

Thank you all very much:) Actually this senttence was written by my friend and I would write it in different way to, I just wanted to make sure about tenses in teported speech. So "can" can be moved to the past - "could" but "send" has to be changed into "sent". Thanks again.

reported speech | Agree

Lingua 5B — Tue, 29 May 2012 22:33:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: reported speech
Poster: Lingua 5B
Post title: Agree

[quote]Helena Chavarria wrote:

[quote]milka_oka wrote:

Hello, I'm new here and I need to have an answer if it is possible to say(in the situation when a half an hour ago I spoke with a person):
Person to who I called said that the signed documents can be SCANNED and send via mail.
Or we need to past tense to this sentence?
Please comment.
Thanks. [/quote]

The person I called told me the signed documents can/could be scanned and sent by email (post? "Mail" refers to a letter sent in the traditional manner).

You can use either "can" or "could" but there are other mistakes in the fragment. [/quote]

Yes, and the reference will be slightly changed when one is used instead of the other (can/could), however, in some cases of indirect speech having both options is not possible (i.e. the sequence must be implemented).

[Edited at 2012-05-29 23:14 GMT]

reported speech | Sequence of tenses in English

Lingua 5B — Tue, 29 May 2012 22:31:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: reported speech
Poster: Lingua 5B
Post title: Sequence of tenses in English

Yes, in case of indirect speech you need to match the tense of the events the took place in the past (Tense Agreement). But your sentence is incorrect on several other levels as well.

There are some exceptions to this rule, like with all rules, i.e. depending on the reference of the second action and whether it is still valid or it was only valid in the past (at the moment of speaking).

[Edited at 2012-05-29 22:31 GMT]

reported speech | This is what I would say

Helena Chavarria — Tue, 29 May 2012 22:28:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: reported speech
Poster: Helena Chavarria
Post title: This is what I would say

[quote]milka_oka wrote:

Hello, I'm new here and I need to have an answer if it is possible to say(in the situation when a half an hour ago I spoke with a person):
Person to who I called said that the signed documents can be SCANNED and send via mail.
Or we need to past tense to this sentence?
Please comment.
Thanks. [/quote]

The person I called told me the signed documents can/could be scanned and sent by email (post? "Mail" refers to a letter sent in the traditional manner).

You can use either "can" or "could" but there are other mistakes in the fragment.

reported speech

milka_oka — Tue, 29 May 2012 20:39:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: reported speech
Poster: milka_oka

Hello, I'm new here and I need to have an answer if it is possible to say(in the situation when a half an hour ago I spoke with a person):
Person to who I called said that the signed documents can be SCANNED and send via mail.
Or we need to past tense to this sentence?
Please comment.
Thanks.

Participant observation on Proz fora

Rafael Mondini Bueno — Thu, 24 May 2012 18:00:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Participant observation on Proz fora
Poster: Rafael Mondini Bueno

Hello everybody,

I am to write my senior capstone in Social Sciences in the next semester, and I've been thinking of writing about translation as a social process - maybe I'll focus on consensus-forming processes regarding terminology and their "satellite" phenomena.
For this, I am considering the possibility of doing participant observation here on Proz, mostly because other methodological approaches (structured interviews, focus groups, etc) don't seem to be able to capture all the slight details that are involved in the sociality here. As I read in a topic just a couple of days ago, translators don't fit very well in forms, a statement which I take seriously to heart.

So, in a nutshell, do you think this approach could be more "productive" (oh, hate this word)? Do you see any obstacles to be overcome in a hypotethical fieldwork here? Do you think the translators who usually post things here would be friendly in answering some questions?

Thanks in advance. :)

[Edited at 2012-05-24 21:02 GMT]

What language is this: si si si, dolada, yacu, sineladu, banaha ? | si si si dolada yacu sineladu banaha

redd — Thu, 24 May 2012 04:51:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: What language is this: si si si, dolada, yacu, sineladu, banaha ?
Poster: redd
Post title: si si si dolada yacu sineladu banaha

back in about 1980 i was taught this song after my 'teacher' had come back from a trip to Africa with a passion .. i dont remember the details for where she's been but i remember it led to a full on project about zulu's it' partly stands out because i brought a zulu record in of my mothers and also because i havent stopped singing it for years, which is why i came across this thread whilst trying to find the correct upbeat tempo on youtube of which i havent found as yet xx

“The” before a gerund | The fuss

Neil Coffey — Fri, 18 May 2012 16:33:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: “The” before a gerund
Poster: Neil Coffey
Post title: The fuss

[quote]Vaddy Peters wrote:
If it is "a noun" than what's all the fuss about?
[/quote]

Because, as I've explained above, it has syntactic features that aren't noun-like.

“The” before a gerund | Form and function

Giles Watson — Fri, 18 May 2012 15:28:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: “The” before a gerund
Poster: Giles Watson
Post title: Form and function

[quote]Vaddy Peters wrote:
[quote]Steven Hanley wrote:

In the sentence you object to:
"“She was watching the skating of two girls she had never seen there before.”
"Skating" is not a gerund; it as noun.

[/quote]

Fully agree with you, sir, as does a thick Oxford dictionary, listing it as such.

[/quote]

Me, too.

Word forms in English can have multiple functions, as Vaddy points out (to say the "-ing" form is "sometimes pretty confusing" is putting it mildly!) and in Steven's example, "skating" is indeed used as a noun.

However, if the subject had gone on to say about the two girls: "Their skating the lake this late in spring was very risky", she would have been using "skating" as a gerund. In the second case, "skating" functions in the same way as a verb (it has a direct object - "the lake") whereas in Steven's example it is used as a true noun with a prepositional post-modifying phrase ("of the two girls") that an Italian might refer to as a "complemento di specificazione".

FWIW

[Edited at 2012-05-18 15:28 GMT]

“The” before a gerund | still

Vaddy Peters — Fri, 18 May 2012 09:11:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: “The” before a gerund
Poster: Vaddy Peters
Post title: still

Funny enough, Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary defines the Gerund as; "a noun in the form of the present PATICIPLE (sic.) of a verb, (that is ending in -ing)." If it is "a noun" than what's all the fuss about?
Still, those –ing words are sometimes pretty confusing. King, starling, seedling – nouns, Gooding, Vikings – proper nouns, easy-going, interesting – adjectives, shortcomings, sayings – verbal nouns, listening, seeing – participles, swimming, jogging – gerunds, supposing, considering (that) – conjunctions, notwithstanding, following – prepositions.

I need someone from South Africa to help me :) | Still looking for someone... :)

Juan Manuel Macarlupu Peña — Mon, 07 May 2012 12:58:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: I need someone from South Africa to help me :)
Poster: Juan Manuel Macarlupu Peña
Post title: Still looking for someone... :)

IF anyone can help me I'll appreciate it :)

value of DipTrans (Iol, UK) | Minor languages

Emma Goldsmith — Sun, 06 May 2012 07:10:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: value of DipTrans (Iol, UK)
Poster: Emma Goldsmith
Post title: Minor languages

The IoL issues an "EXAMINERS’ REPORTS ON CANDIDATE PERFORMANCE FOR SMALL ENTRY LANGUAGES":
[url removed]
Unfortunately, it's 5 years old and I expect more languages have been added since then, depending on demand.
It still makes very interesting reading for anyone who is thinking of taking this exam. The pass rates detailed at the end of each section are a bit misleading because a 100%, 50% or 33% pass rate clearly reflects the fact that only 1, 2 or 3 people took that particular exam.

value of DipTrans (Iol, UK) | The Official Line

Ty Kendall — Sat, 05 May 2012 22:24:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: value of DipTrans (Iol, UK)
Poster: Ty Kendall
Post title: The Official Line

"Languages

The DipTrans can be taken in a range of language combinations including English, French, German, Italian and Spanish.

Other language combinations may be offered depending on demand. Please note that if the Institute is unable to locate adequately qualified examiners to carry out the examination in certain languages, it reserves the right to withdraw the examination. In such cases candidates' fees will be refunded but the Institute will not be liable for any additional expenditure candidates may have incurred."

....which seems a bit ambiguous, I'd also like to hear from people who have taken this exam in the non-main language pairs.

value of DipTrans (Iol, UK) | Diptrans in English to Turkish?

Nuri Razi — Sat, 05 May 2012 22:17:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: value of DipTrans (Iol, UK)
Poster: Nuri Razi
Post title: Diptrans in English to Turkish?

Dear Colleagues,

Thank you for your opinion on whether the Diptrans brings benefit to the translator's business. But does anyone know whether the Institute gives certification in English to Turkish pair? Thanks indeed.

Index in German, use of definite article | titles of works, include article

DELANE — Fri, 04 May 2012 12:25:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Index in German, use of definite article
Poster: DELANE
Post title: titles of works, include article

Opolt,
I very much appreciate your response, confirming my sense on this. So if the article is part of a title, such as in a film, book, a theatre piece, etc, then it is to be included, i.e. "Die Berliner Secession" or the film "Der Dritte Mann", is that so?

[quote]opolt wrote:

PS As an aside, IMHO a good index would not read "Expressionisten, Kubisten", etc., but rather "Epressionismus, Kubismus". That is to say, you list topics/subjects and concrete persons (unless a proper name must be used, for instance "Die Berliner Secession"), not abstract groups of persons. But obviously this depends on what the authors prescribe, and other factors.

[Edited at 2012-05-02 09:03 GMT] [/quote]

Index in German, use of definite article | Leave it out

inkweaver — Wed, 02 May 2012 10:20:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Index in German, use of definite article
Poster: inkweaver
Post title: Leave it out

I agree with opolt, I have never seen the article included in an index of a German book.

You may find adjectives in the format you used (e.g. "Revolution, industrielle" or "Strahlung, radioaktive") but not articles.

Index in German, use of definite article | Without the article

opolt — Wed, 02 May 2012 08:58:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Index in German, use of definite article
Poster: opolt
Post title: Without the article

As far as I'm aware, I have never seen the article being included in an index of a German book or document. From a German native viewpoint, it just looks silly, as the gender is "inherent" in the noun anyway, with very few exceptions, so it's superfluous.

Yes, you may consider including the article in a language textbook, or some other bilingual context, or anything language related. But otherwise it would only draw attention to something which is not really a problem for the native speaker.

PS As an aside, IMHO a good index would not read "Expressionisten, Kubisten", etc., but rather "Epressionismus, Kubismus". That is to say, you list topics/subjects and concrete persons (unless a proper name must be used, for instance "Die Berliner Secession"), not abstract groups of persons. But obviously this depends on what the authors prescribe, and other factors.

[Edited at 2012-05-02 09:03 GMT]

Index in German, use of definite article | Don't leave it out

George Trail — Wed, 02 May 2012 08:27:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Index in German, use of definite article
Poster: George Trail
Post title: Don't leave it out

Write it as you did.

Index in German, use of definite article

DELANE — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:10:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Index in German, use of definite article
Poster: DELANE

Presently compiling an index for a German text. Does one use a definite article (the, or die, der, das) and format it like so:

(INDEX)
Expressionisten, die
Kubisten, die

Etc..

Or should the article out be left out? Thank you.

Books or articles discussing register | Thanks for your help!

Michelle Deeter — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 15:19:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Books or articles discussing register
Poster: Michelle Deeter
Post title: Thanks for your help!

Thanks for the book and article recommendations everyone, I've already started reading them and I think they are just what I was looking for. :)

Take care,
Michelle

Books or articles discussing register | There are better places to search than proz

urbom — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 07:10:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Books or articles discussing register
Poster: urbom
Post title: There are better places to search than proz

... for that type of information. One place would be the LINGUIST list -- [url removed] (try searching the archive first before signing up to post a question:
[url removed] )

These days, comparative studies across register and/or text type commonly employ corpus analysis as a methodology. You could ask your lecturer for some introductory materials on corpus linguistics if you're unfamiliar with that field.

Doug Biber (one of whose articles Phil introduced in his post above) is a prominent academic in the field of corpus linguistics. You might find some additional books and articles relevant to your topic in his list of publications: [url removed]

If you can find a copy of the Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English (1999, ISBN [phone removed] ), the introductory section contains some discussion of register and variation.

This article may be useful to you not necessarily for the language feature it analyses, but for its methodology section and references.

This paper on a corpus-based analysis of certain features of EU text may be useful.

Here is a chapter comparing "translation procedures" in literary and non-literary (in this case, EU) texts. (Full TOC and title/author/ISBN for book is at [url removed] )

Hope this gets you a little further.

[Edited at 2012-04-25 07:22 GMT]

Books or articles discussing register | There should be lots...

Phil Hand — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:04:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Books or articles discussing register
Poster: Phil Hand
Post title: There should be lots...

I feel like I've read a lot on this, but perhaps I've just read around it. I did find this paper, which includes some directly relevant stuff:

A textual comparison of British and American writing
D Biber
[url removed]

I have access to the journal online, so email me if you want a copy.

Books or articles discussing register | articles compilation on translation issues

Eka Adi Nugraha — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 03:35:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Books or articles discussing register
Poster: Eka Adi Nugraha
Post title: articles compilation on translation issues

My apology for I forgot to write the web address and, also, you might google using "register tone" as your keyword so that the search engine won't regard it as "register" that means "sign up"

regard.

Books or articles discussing register | articles compilation on translation issues

Eka Adi Nugraha — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 03:32:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Books or articles discussing register
Poster: Eka Adi Nugraha
Post title: articles compilation on translation issues

Register tone or register is quite an issue, which often stressed by many clients, in this profession. I have found a website that provides many articles comprising various topics in translation. I have read one of the articles discussing tone. Although it doesn't discuss register tone in the context of legal and governmental documents, but I hope it will be quite helpful.

Books or articles discussing register

Michelle Deeter — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:46:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: Books or articles discussing register
Poster: Michelle Deeter

Dear friends,

I am writing a paper which is commenting on a translation of a webpage on the EU website. It's actually a question and answer article, shown here.

[url removed]

I would like to discuss the issue of register. The EU always wants to sound formal, but in the context of documents which are written for the public, it tries to be more accessible. So word choice can differ to be a little bit more understandable. Not familiar but yet not too distant. In general, in EU question-and answer documents it tries to be every so slightly more approachable. And I guess overall this document still sounds extremely formal, but not quite as formal as an actual legal document.

Do you know of any books, researchers, or articles which discuss the issues of tone and register in the context of public institutions? Or just in the context of government/law? I tried to look through the forums, but every time I search the word register it means "sign up" and not "tone."

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list

Pablo Bouvier — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:45:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list
Poster: Pablo Bouvier

Vielen Dank alle zusammen für eure nette Hilfe!

Of course, a translation will be context-dependent. I was somewhat confused, cause I often see these words translated as synonims and may be I did not recognise some subtile differences that a german native won't overlook.

The translation for überprüfen was a proposal to difference it from the word prüfen and somewhat conditioned by the conceptual similarity between the words super and über as like with acondicionamiento and reacondicionamiento.

So, the goal was to have some guidance when translating and to try to give a shot to clarity in this "mine-field" as Opolt said. Thanks a lot for share your points of view.

[Edited at 2012-04-23 15:24 GMT]

German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list | Some most frequently ones

Tomás Cano Binder, CT — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 19:53:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list
Poster: Tomás Cano Binder, CT
Post title: Some most frequently ones

Some other very frequent examples that come to mind are:

- inbetriebsetzen: poner en marcha
- inbetriebnehmen: poner en servicio
- umbauen: reconfigurar/modificar
- nachbauen: instalar posteriormente/incorporar
- abbauen: eliminar (some kind of dirt of deposit, or other things like accumulated pressure or elastic force)
- übergeben: hacer entrega (to the customer)

I do not quite agree with the translations of "instandsetzen"/"wiederinstandsetzen". You cannot really assign a single meaning to these, and writers use them really often to mean "reparar"/"recuperar"/"restablecer". "Warten" can also mean to operate the machine, if it requires operators to take parts in or out of the machine. "Überholen" can also mean to re-generate the machine after a certain period in operation, i.e. replace the consumable/wear parts, etc.

In general, German writers are rather flexible in the use of these words and the context and experience of the translator is most important to create an understandable translation.

German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list | Difficult indeed

opolt — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 19:32:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list
Poster: opolt
Post title: Difficult indeed

Yes Pablo, you're absolutely correct that this is a minefield for Spanish/German translators.

But apart from the list being context-dependent (of course) in general terms, it should be treated as a complete field of meanings/semantics. That is to say, if one of the verbs has a slightly different meaning due to the concrete application at hand or some other factor, one or several of the others should/must change/shift accordingly. This is because many of these cannot be clearly separated from each other, and are often used as (false or semi-)synonyms, or more or less interchangeably.

For instance, "instandsetzen" is often used for "reparar". You'd have to change your translation of "reparieren" as necessary. Plus, "instandsetzen" and "instandhalten" ("mantener") are sometimes confused, or actually represent (almost) the same actions (in real terms).

"Unterhalten" might be translated as both "mantener" and "cuidar", plus "sostener" in some rare cases.

In also agree with Joakim that "überprüfen" might have to be translated differently, e.g. as "comprobar". In other cases it might have the meaning of "inspeccionar" ("to carry out a [visual] check/inspection"). Another translation would be "verificar" in many cases.

In addition, there are different usage patterns in different industries. For instance, you'll be aware that the railway/rolling stock industry (in Germany at least) has its own very peculiar set of expressions when it comes to this topic, such as "Revision durchführen", "überholen", not always with the same meaning as in other industries.

IMHO these things do not work well for dictionaries/glossaries and the like. I'm not sure what the purpose of you list really is, Pablo, maybe you should tell us a bit more what you're aiming at here.

Considering all of the above, in reply to your query whether these terms are precise enough, I would say that they are too precise, due to their nature -- unless you have a very specific context/application etc. in mind.

[Edited at 2012-04-22 19:38 GMT]

German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list | Supervisar?

Joakim Braun — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:16:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list
Poster: Joakim Braun
Post title: Supervisar?

If Spanish "supervisar" = English "supervise" (as in, "supervise somebody's work" or "superintend the widget installation"), that's not a good choice for "überprüfen", which usually means something like "check" ("Ölstand überprüfen" - check the oil).

German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list

Pablo Bouvier — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:58:00 +0000

Forum: Linguistics
Topic: German-Spanish machinery-maintenance verb list
Poster: Pablo Bouvier

One of the difficulties of technical translation from German into Spanish are the machinery-maintenance verbs. I have created a German/Spanisch verb list and would like to know your opinion or better said, I would like to know if you believe it is precise enough. Thanks in advance.

instandsetzen: acondicionar
kontrollieren: controlar
korrigieren: corregir
nachbessern: retocar
pflegen: conservar
reparieren: reparar
überholen: revisar
überprüfen: supervisar
unterhalten: cuidar
warten: mantener
wiederinstandsetzen: reacondicionar

[Edited at 2012-04-23 15:27 GMT]