across language server vs trados teamworks: handling InDesign files
Thread poster: Susanne Artelt
Susanne Artelt
Germany
Local time: 04:37
German to English
Aug 20, 2007

In the past we had a lot of problems handling InDesign (CS1 and 2) files in the translation process. We work with SDL Trados TeamWorks and Trados 7. We would like to do a test run with across and across Language Server to see how things are going.
InDesign is ruining our memories with unnecessary tags, information about font sizes, font families and so on.

It would be great to know if any of you already had experiences with across in the translation process with InDesign files.

I am grateful for any support!


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:37
English to French
+ ...
Which format? Aug 20, 2007

What format are you using: .isc or .inx? I've heard that .inx is more stable and more "clean" than .isc. But to able to handle CS2 .inx files, I think you need SDL Trados 2006. I don't know which version of TeamWorks is compatible with .inx files, but my guess is at least version 2.0 and above (we are using TW 3.0 with Trados 2006 - 7.5).

But in the end, these tags are necessary to tell the DTP software how to handle a particular piece of text. I do admit that sometimes it's exaggerated, like when you end up with a text that l[tag]o[tag][tag]o[tag]k[tag][tag][tag]s like this

I'd be curious to hear about other people's experiences!


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Susanne Artelt
Germany
Local time: 04:37
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
file formats Aug 20, 2007

We tried .inx (CS 2) and .isc (CS 1) => same results We use the latest release of TeamWorks (3.0), Trados 2006 as well.

Yes, you're right - the tags are unfortunately necessary for reproducing the layout files.

But how do we keep our memories clean?

We were testing a java transformation that should have cleaned the exported memories (.txt) - did not work.

We are now trying to find a solution to clean up the XML-exports.

Has anyone found a working solution - maybe...?


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:37
English to French
+ ...
Always the same format? Aug 21, 2007

Are you always handling inDesign files via the .isc/.inx format, or are you using other formats as well?

I must admit that 'cleaning' our memories has never really been an issue for us, as we are pretty much always handling inDesign files. There will be the odd Word/Excel/PPT file here and there, but these are generally a different type of marketing materials than the inDesign files. If we remove the tags from the TMs, we won't get the 100% or high fuzzy matches when a similar inDesign file comes in.


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Susanne Artelt
Germany
Local time: 04:37
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Opposite experience Aug 21, 2007

Hi Marie-Claude,

yes we are always handling .isc/.inx-files.

We made a totally opposite experience - we could not get any matches at all, even though they were 100% matches, such as copyright information or product names.

The marketing material in our case is very, very individual - i.e. almost any document is individual in it's layout, but the conent, however, is oftenly repeating. And so it was impossible for us to reduce translation costs or maintenance time. We had to find a way to clean up the memories.
(BTW: we did it manually in text editor by "search & replace"...)

That's why we are still testing a way to solve that problem, because we don't have the sources available to further make manual clean-ups


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 04:37
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Tricks... Aug 21, 2007

One useful trick is to save InDesign file as .inx, then open it in InDesign and again save it as inx. This supposedly cleans the file a little bit.

However, I do not see the need for 'clean' TMs. If the inline codes are indeed always relevant (and not 'rogue' codes resulting from bad InDesign formatting), then it is not very likely that they will change that dramatically between the segment. That is, if you have the segment

This [bold]is[/bold] a sample sentence.

then you do not expect matching segments like:

This is a [italics]sample[/italics] sentence.


Of course, if the codes are rogue, this is another matter entirely. In such cases it might be useful to duplicate the segments: to export to TMX, clean the internal codes (with Olifant, for example) and import it back to the same TM. Then you have two versions of the same segment: one with codes (in case it is needed for similiar inx file) and another one with pure text.

Another way to remove the inline codes is to go through TMX level 1 (as it does not contain inline codes at all) but I am not sure what else you might miss...

[Edited at 2007-08-21 07:40]


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Susanne Artelt
Germany
Local time: 04:37
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Olifant? Aug 21, 2007

Hi,
thanks for your answer!
Could you tell me more about Olifant?
How does it work?

The tags are indeed rogue...


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 04:37
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Olifant Aug 21, 2007

Please note that there are two versions of Olifant (both links are here):

http://okapi.sourceforge.net/downloads.html

The new version does not have all the functions of the old one, so you have to try out which works.


If you have problems with matches when the tags are different, you probably have the penalty set too high. Go to Translation Memory Options\Penalties and set it too a really low value (I have mine at 2%).


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Nicole Keller
Germany
Local time: 04:37
English to German
+ ...
across and InDesign Aug 21, 2007

across imports the inx format. You can actually decide in across whether to store tags or not. There are several options you can choose from, that means you can decide which additional information except for the text itself is to be stored in the translation memory.

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Ömer Maraş
Turkey
Local time: 06:37
English to Turkish
+ ...
olifant (or the whole bunch of enlaso/okapi tools) and across Jul 24, 2008

I got problems with xml files in across - when I save the target preview, "prepare" it for trados processing, and work on it, the sentences are broken into several lines, with soft breaks ^l and tabs ^t^t or sometimes also with hard breaks ^p
is it possible to use the Rainbow or any other enlaso/okapi tool to do something about this, combine the sentences automatically, instead of using the advanced find-replace in MS Word??

anybody get some experience about this?? Jabberwock???


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