The mysterious 'Roberto' (Latin)
Thread poster: Thierry LOTTE

Thierry LOTTE  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:47
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Jun 29, 2004

Salve !


I am reading a french novel containing a lot of Latin quotation with their translation by the author himself.

One of the translation from latin puzzles me a little bit :

“ crede mihi experto Roberto”

Translated in french by :

“ Fiez-vous à moi qui en ai l’expérience”

More or lesss in english : “do trust in me, because I have some experience in such matters”

There is more than 25 years that I sold my “Gaffiot” (the most famous Latin-French-Latin Dic) and I am wondering why “Roberto” have a capital letter…
Roberto seems as a first name for me. Any other possible translation for “Roberto” ¿

FYG there are no characters in this novel whose first name is “Roberto”.
Another tip : the action of this novel takes place in the XVI th century in france and the dialogs are between physicians.

Anybody could be so kind to give me some clue ?


PS : this quotation runs along the 6000 pages of the novel and is always translated in the same way.

[Edited at 2004-06-29 19:13]


[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2004-06-29 23:11]


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BelkisDV  Identity Verified
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Local time: 12:47
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Could it be... Jun 29, 2004

Hi Thierry,

The first and only thing that comes to mind is that it is an expression like: Como Vicente y otros veinte. In other words, "experto" rhymes with "Roberto".

Now I'm puzzled too.

Regards,
Belkis


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Geoffrey Barrow
Local time: 12:47
Norwegian to English
Robert Burton - Democritus Junior Jun 29, 2004

This is a quotation from "The Anatomy of Melancholy" by Robert Burton (1577-1640), using the nom de plume "Democritus Junior".

See http://www.blackmask.com/thatway/books149c/amelone.htm#1_0_2

So Roberto was actually an Englishman.


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Geoffrey Barrow
Local time: 12:47
Norwegian to English
Slight correction Jun 29, 2004

Actually, thinking about it, what you have found is actually a misquotation. I believe the actual words Burton used were
"Experto crede Roberto" (Believe Roberto who has tried it).


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BelkisDV  Identity Verified
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A proverb Jun 29, 2004

Geoffrey Barrow wrote:

Actually, thinking about it, what you have found is actually a misquotation. I believe the actual words Burton used were
\"Experto crede Roberto\" (Believe Roberto who has tried it).


Geoffrey is right. Please see the link below:

http://www.giga-usa.com/gigaweb1/quotes2/quautburtonrobertx001.htm

ROBERT BURTON
English writer, philosopher and humorist
(1576 - 1640)

BUY BOOK RELATED TO
ROBERT BURTON

Believe Robert who has tried it.
[Lat., Experto crede Roberto.]
- Anatomy of Melancholy, a proverb quoted by him in the introduction
[Experience : Proverbs]



Regards,
Belkis


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Thierry LOTTE  Identity Verified
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Not only a quotation : part of a Jun 29, 2004

Geoffrey said :




Actually, thinking about it, what you have found is actually a misquotation. I believe the actual words Burton used were
"Experto crede Roberto" (Believe Roberto who has tried it).




Thanks Geoffrey, but this quotation is part of a dialog. Maybe I misused the word "quotation".,
I meaned than in the french text, there is a whole dialog in latin between a "Bachelor of Arts" and a "Doctor in Medicins", that`s why they are not "quoting" somebody. In such a case, why should they use "crede mihi" ?

The same expression comes back many times in the other volumes of this novel and is always translated in the same way (in French).

Furthermore, upon your information :


This is a quotation from "The Anatomy of Melancholy" by Robert Burton (1577-1640), using the nom de plume "Democritus Junior".



The "facts" take place in 1572, that is to say 5 years before the birth of Robert Burton.
Could be a mistake of Robert Merle (the author) but I strongly doubt it because this author is usually trustworth.

Unfortunately I cannot ask him directly because he died 3 months ago...

Sorry for my poor english and thank you again for your help.






[Edited at 2004-06-29 21:04]


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xxxsarahl
Local time: 09:47
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mon humble avis Jun 29, 2004

Il y a bien des lustres que j'ai transmis le gaffiot familial à la génération suivante mais voici mon interprétation pour ce qu'elle vaut :
crede mihi experto : fiez-vous à moi, l'expert.
Le Roberto rime avec experto comme dans "Tu parles Charles, no way Jose" etc.
Sarah parla


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:17
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My modest attempt Jun 29, 2004

Most probably it is an impersonal name like Jack in the saying "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" and Roberto does indeed rhyme with experto.

Now, "crede mihi experto Roberto" can perhaps mean:
"Fiez-vous à Roberto (c'est à dire à moi) qui en ai l’expérience"

Regards,
N.Raghavan


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irat56  Identity Verified
France
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A la demande de Sarah! Jun 30, 2004

Ma très humble petite pierre à vos savantes réponses:

"Roberto" est le transparent "Robert Merle" lui-même qui se mete en scène comme "Docteur d'expérience" dans sa saga qui commence dans "En nos vertes Années", l'enfance te la jeunesse de Pierre de Siorac.
Robert Merle fut Professeur (Anglais!) à la Fac de RENNES...dans mes vertes années.
Pour la traduction, je dirai que "Roberto" n'étant pas un vocatif, c'est bien le locuteur qui est concerné...et c'est pourquoi on ne trouve guère le prénom cité par la suite.
Pour éviter la confusion, j'aurais (peut-être) traduit par : "Moi, Robert, te dis d'avoir confiance en mon expérience", ou quelque chose d'approchant.

Peut-être serez-vous ici aidé?
Bon courage!
Pierre


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Thierry LOTTE  Identity Verified
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At least, the solutions is the following : Jul 14, 2004

Well !

I think that, at least, the mystery has been solved.

I wrote in my question the following:



One of the translation from Latin puzzles me a little bit :

“ crede mihi experto Roberto”

Translated in French by :

“ Fiez-vous à moi qui en ai l’expérience”

More or less in English : “do trust in me, because I have some experience in such matters”



The problem was the following :



FYG there are no characters in this novel whose first name is “Roberto”.
Another tip : the action of this novel takes place in the XVI th century in France and the dialogs are between physicians.

Anybody could be so kind to give me some clue ?



I think that Robert Merle (or me think the editor) have been a little bit « weak » in this case (I feel very ashamed to pretend such a thing, but…).

In fact, the protagonist who pronounces this phrase is the reverent doctor in Medicine « Fogacer » which, later on, we learn that his first name is « Robert ».
So, everything is thus « correct » from a Latin grammatical point of view.

In the volume VI the author repeat the same expression saying : « Crede mihi experto Johano » which is translated – correctly – by : « Croyez-moi- Jean – car j’en ai l’expérience… » and as the protagonist is « Jean de Siorac » everything sounds cool…
Furthermore, in the same volume the expression : « crede mihi experto » is always translated in French by : «Fiez-vous à moi qui en ai l’expérience”.
Which sound, now, perfectly correct.

Thanks to all of you who brought me their help in this matter.






[Edited at 2004-07-14 00:49]


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The mysterious 'Roberto' (Latin)

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