Pope bringing Latin back
Thread poster: xxxJenns
xxxJenns
Local time: 11:22
English to French
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May 28, 2007

I heard and I do not know if it is true that the Pope is thinking about bringing Latin back to the mass.
I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on this. Good or bad? Does this make people who adore Latin happy that maybe it is reviving this language?


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 19:22
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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I see no problem May 28, 2007

Jenns wrote:
I heard and I do not know if it is true that the Pope is thinking about bringing Latin back to the mass.


It shouldn't make a difference to reciting boring stuff and you don't really mean what you're saying, even if you suddenly do it in a dead language. That's just my opinion.


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Hipyan Nopri  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 00:22
English to Indonesian
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Good News May 28, 2007

Hi Jenns,

I hope it would be realized in the near future. Personally, I wish there were no dead language in this world.


Best Regards

Hipyan


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Orla Ryan  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 18:22
Why not May 28, 2007

I don't go to Mass anyway, so it doesn't matter to me what language it is in.

You can attend Mass in Italian, Polish, French, Spanish or Portugese in Dublin, so if the demand is there for Latin, then why not.

[Edited at 2007-05-28 16:12]


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flaviofbg
Spain
Local time: 19:22
Spanish to Italian
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Latine... May 28, 2007

Definitely a good thing for Latin as a language (Latin being used *orally* again, even if not in normal conversation, but only in fixed ceremonial literature. (But what about sermons? Are they going to be in Latin as well?...)

I am not sure it is going to be a good thing for the church - if they are banning all other languages, I mean...

Anyway I am not going to mass anymore, as I feel rejected by the Church as a human being, but this is already off topic.

Long live Latin!

Love,
Flavio


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Heidi Fayolle  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:22
French to German
Just for international mass May 28, 2007

Please excuse my English .. it's not my working language.

The pope would just like to reintroduce latin for international masses at huge events like the world youth day. But he is against systematic traditional latin masses, nevertheless he allows some groups to practice it however, I think in order to keep them within the church where it is easier to keep them under control.

Heidi


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Evi Wollinger  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:22
Member (2003)
German to English
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the question was about language... May 28, 2007

Samuel Murray wrote:

Jenns wrote:
I heard and I do not know if it is true that the Pope is thinking about bringing Latin back to the mass.


It shouldn't make a difference to reciting boring stuff and you don't really mean what you're saying, even if you suddenly do it in a dead language. That's just my opinion.


No offense, but let's not start a holy war over a language question! Everybody is entitled to their opinions, mine certainly differs from yours where it comes to the "boring stuff". But that is strictly my problem, if I have a problem with that - know what I mean?

Anyways, when it comes to the language Latin, personally I don't know much about it, but I am certainly not under the impression, that it is a dead language. And it is also my understanding, that reviving the language is not the main focus of this idea.
And it has certainly come to my attention that it is not likely going to happen on a broader scale - Latin coming back to mass, that is. Most people just wouldn't understand what anybody was saying - which would truly make it all into boring stuff! Unless of course, you hire an interpreter for every mass - I am joking, of course! But there is a point...
Anyways, no offense intended! Just my opinion about Latin!


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Deschant
Local time: 18:22
Reply May 28, 2007

I have attended masses in Latin (there are churches which still use it, but not usually in the sermon) and everything suddenly seemed more solemn, specially if at the same time ancient polyphony by Palestrina or Victoria was being sung. So, from an aesthetic point of view, yes, I love Latin being used in mass, definitively. But as I rarely attend mass, I don't think my opinion on this matter should be taken into account...

When my mother was a child, mass was in Latin and she has told me that most people knew no Latin at all so they just repeated the same sentences again and again without understanding them and even making terrible grammatical mistakes... well, I don't think it's fair for people who really want to be there and participate not being able to understand what it's being said to them (or what they say themselves). However, if this encouraged them to learn a bit of Latin, that wouldn't be bad at all either...

[Editado a las 2007-05-28 17:20]


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xxxSpring City  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:22
Chinese to English
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He is not bringing it back across the board May 28, 2007

Benedict XVI is expected to allow any priest the option of using the Latin Mass (currently they need the bishop's permission and some bishops disapprove..). He is not bringing it back as the mass in every church. Probably only a few churches will bring it back, but he is extending tolerance and inclusiveness to those who want to do so. That is all. [It's probably all he can get away with.]

The Latin Mass did not include a compulsory sermon, so the issue of the language of sermons is by-the-by. It did have compulsory kneeling for communication. It was eastward-facing, in that the priest faced the altar and not the people and led the people in the service. All these things had great symbolism at the time, and were tenaciously defended for centuries.

Personally I am more interested in Classical Latin than in Ecclesiastical Latin, but the Latin language has an important place in our civilisation.


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Nicholas Ferreira  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 13:22
Spanish to English
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In mente Pontificis (In the mind of the Pontiff) May 28, 2007

djwebb wrote:

Benedict XVI is expected to allow any priest the option of using the Latin Mass (currently they need the bishop's permission and some bishops disapprove..). He is not bringing it back as the mass in every church. Probably only a few churches will bring it back, but he is extending tolerance and inclusiveness to those who want to do so.


Exactly, he is introducing an option of celebrating the traditional rite of the Mass in Latin, not mandating that all Masses are to be celebrated in Latin. The Church is universal and has room for different options within its defined framework.

For my part I have attended Mass in Latin for years, so the only change is that it will now be a little more accessible. Those who attend follow what is being said in a translated missal so they can know the meaning of the prayers. And the preaching is always in one's native language, since even if there were some who could understand, few priests would be able to preach longer than a few paragraphs in Latin.

The idea behind the Pope's initiative is that Latin is part of the Church's heritage and tradition, and as a Latin teacher and translator and an active Church member, I could not be more in agreement.

And as emoreda stated well, using an ancient, traditional language in my experience gives so much more solemnity to the liturgy. You realize this is not something ordinary, but truly unnatural, or better said, super-natural. It emphasizes the social dimension less, and more the transcendent relation with God that takes place in the Mass. It is interesting how language can have an effect like that.


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Jim Tucker  Identity Verified
United States
Hungarian to English
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hocus pocus May 28, 2007

emoreda wrote:


When my mother was a child, mass was in Latin and she has told me that most people knew no Latin at all so they just repeated the same sentences again and again without understanding them ...

[Editado a las 2007-05-28 17:20]


This is the origin of "hocus pocus", which is a corruption of "hoc est corpus" ("This is the body") spoken at the moment of transsubstantiation. People thought it was a magic trick!

J


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Martin Wenzel
Germany
Local time: 19:22
English to German
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This really gets me started... May 29, 2007

I should not complain I have had 9 years of Latin at school and would certainly enjoy a service in Latin because I could probably understand at least some of it...

I am, however, dead against people having to listen to a language they don't understand...

I for one, always can listen to songs in a language I don't understand while translating otherwise it would most certainly interfere with the translation process in my head...

Perhaps Latin at church is a good way of tuning out the priest, so we can fully concentrate on God???

In Morocco, people use a lot of these "reeled off" automatic replies (just as is done during Latin services) - mind you, the others do understand what is being said, but they are not given a chance to a get a word in edgeways...so they could go to sleep, because this process may take from 15 seconds up to two minutes....

How I hate, loathe and detest this...but I have to accept it because it is part of their culture...and I am living as a minority in a foreign land.

Whenever, I try to change things here I eventually give up and follow suit, it is so much easier.

Latin offered as a free an(a)esthetic at church? Well, this would defeat the purpose of going to a service, really, because I'd get a better sleep in my own bed...


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Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 19:22
Member
Italian to English
Out of touch with the real world May 29, 2007

IMHO the Catholic Church is out of touch with the real world, and this is another demonstration of that. I doubt mass said in Latin will boost the already falling number of followers... But that's just my opinion.

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xxxSpring City  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:22
Chinese to English
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But the vernacular mass may have lost it followers since the 1960s May 29, 2007

Fiona Peterson wrote:

IMHO the Catholic Church is out of touch with the real world, and this is another demonstration of that. I doubt mass said in Latin will boost the already falling number of followers... But that's just my opinion.


Well, we are in a different situation to the 1960s. Fewer people have studied the Classics at school. I am so lucky to have been able to do a Latin O level in 1985 at school.

Here is another way of looking at it: the church stood for tradition, it maintained its principles for centuries. In the Latin Mass, the Church called her people with a voice of constant authority. Nothing ephemeral or headline-grabbing, but a presence that had always been there for 1900 years, standing for good human values that cannot be contradicted. The RC Church was known for its preference for ceremony, candles, incense, vestments etc - and Latin.

And then the church decided to modernize in an ill-thought out and cheap appeal to the young. In doing so, it tossed off its authority. No ceremony or anything. Priests in dirty T-shirts strumming a guitar. "Pizza Masses", where pizzas replaced the Eucharist in an attempt to get the support of the young (deservedly getting their contempt instead).

I am not sure Latin Masses could lure people back. As far as the UK monarchy is concerned, Bagehot said "don't let daylight in on magic". The same applies to the Church. Once you have cheapened it, you can't get back the aura of authority that the Church should have. But still, despite a certain dumbing down of the liturgy, the RC Church can be said to have stuck to its guns on the essentials and stands for many good and traditional values even in the face of an increasingly hostile culture.

[Edited at 2007-05-29 14:12]


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nballerb
English
i'd like to chat Jul 13, 2007

does anyone know where i can find the mass in spanish?


[quote]Flavio Ferri Benedetti wrote:

"Definitely a good thing for Latin as a language (Latin being used *orally* again, even if not in normal conversation, but only in fixed ceremonial literature. (But what about sermons? Are they going to be in Latin as well?...)

I am not sure it is going to be a good thing for the church - if they are banning all other languages, I mean...

Anyway I am not going to mass anymore, as I feel rejected by the Church as a human being, but this is already off topic."





I love the latin. I don't think the church has had the thought of banning other languages at any time.

I'd like to talk about the "rejected by the Church" thing. I'm most definately no professional but I work with Catholic youth and I'd like to get your feedback on why that is.
nballerb@hotmail.com
nbduker33 - aol inst messenger

[Edited at 2007-07-13 21:26]

[Edited at 2007-07-13 21:26]


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Pope bringing Latin back

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