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Paypal's bait and switch technique - be aware!
Thread poster: Marijke Mayer

Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:32
Dutch to English
+ ...
Oct 9, 2009

Ladies, or gentlemen for that matter, if you think of setting up a PayPal account with your partner of husband's name, which you can legally do in the Netherlands and elsewhere, think again!

I have submitted online countless of official documents showing that I am legally married to my husband, who I am, all my private details etc. to unfreeze my account that they froze without warning, but to no avail. In Holland you keep your maiden name and you are actually known by your maiden name although it is perfectly legal to use your partner's name. There is no way that you actually lose your own name as this is the way you are known by in connection with your (Dutch) social security numbner, also at the tax department.

The scanned documents you submit cannot be more than 40 kb and the file name can only be 3 letters of numbers. I find it a little strange that they accept scanned documents as anyone can mess and alter these documents and then scan them. This is why I think PayPal is a scam.

Read this: http://www.paypalwarning.com/

I no longer think I am dealing with a reputable business. They have their seat in Luxembourg of all places I might add. . . . and claim to be a bank whereas they are not a bank, more of a clearing house. Can you imagine your bank first admitting you and then freezing your account after you have some money in it later asking for documentation??? But they do as they please. The people at telephone line are not helpful at all and are actually stonewalling the department that is actually 'dealing' with your claim, while being ridiculously polite, and you cannot talk to anyone else there.

I think it is a scheme to steal your money. A bait and switch technique so to speak. All I can say is, use bank payments. If it looks too easy to be true, then it is not!

Feel free to let me know of your experiences.

Marijke Mayer


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:32
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I have another PayPal complaint Oct 9, 2009

I received a payment yesterday of Euro 1269.00 via PayPal.

Paypal subtracted a fee of Euro 43.51 !!!

That's even worse than what my bank takes for a transfer!

So I've politely asked my client to pay me via bank transfer, in future.

My impression is that PayPal seems like a quick, user-friendly payment system but I find it far too expensive for regular use.

[Edited at 2009-10-09 17:40 GMT]


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 03:32
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
Sorry about the freezing, but Tom should have read the terms of use. Oct 9, 2009

I have no idea why they would freeze any account, but it has been known to happen.
Why would you want to open an account in your husband's name and not your own? Can your husband make PayPal unfreeze the account, I wonder?

For Tom - on PayPal's website you are told that there will be a fee of xx% of the payment, so this should actually not come as a surprise to you let alone constitute a complaint to PayPal, but that's just my opinion.

Because of this fee, I usually only use PayPal for small payments, where it would be rather expensive for me and/or my client to go for a bank transfer, and then I would often leave the money in the account to pay for various small items bought on the Internet, or I would accumulate small amounts until it is profitable for me to withdraw the amount.

Happy translating.


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:32
Member (2008)
Italian to English
terms of use Oct 9, 2009

it is not I, but my client, who requested to use PayPal. I know PayPal take a percentage and that therefore the more a client pays me, the bigger percentage taken by PayPal. This is unfair - because the transaction process is the same, whether the amount is 1 Euro or 1 million Euro.

My bank (on the other hand) has an upper limit of GBP 20.00 regardless of how much the amount is. I think all banks operate on that basis.

So if it were not for certain clients I wouldn't use PayPal at all.

I would definitely not advise anyone to leave money in a PayPal account - other than small change. It's enough to read the scary website at the link kindly provided by Marijke.

Your account could be frozen at any time, so there shouldn't be any money in it!

As soon as you receive a PayPal payment, you should instantly transfer it into your regular bank account.


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xxxblomguib  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:32
English to Flemish
+ ...
a scam indeed... Oct 9, 2009

Hello Marijke,

long time no see!

I have come to the same conclusion. Although I only used Paypal for small amounts, these small amounts had accumulated seriously and I therefore wanted to transfer money to my account....

The registering of the account was in itself already a logistical nightmare....but ok....after 3 months the account got registered...

Comes the actual transfer; my first try went belly-up because there is a limit which I supposedly exceeded....This is blatantly untrue (proves in hand)....so I lowered the amount....and was able to transfer some money (about 400 euros)...

Three months later, I tried to transfer the rest (about 300 euros)....imagine my surprise when the transfer was not carried out because there is also a yearly limit...supposedly around 1100 euros...

Now I will let you do the math; 400 + 300 is about 700...right?

The second transfer has not been carried out until now...because I have exceeded the yearly limit of 1100 euros (?!?!?!)....

The correspondence by mail is infuriating....they stay excessively polite and throw the most stupid answers at me and never bother to go into details to explain how 300 + 400 can be more than 1100....

I cannot even cancel my account!!!! I need to wait until the account is cleared out....

I have decided to wait until the infamous year is over, to clear out the account and to close it...

Serious? Yes, sure....serious my *ss!


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Lise Leavitt  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:32
Member (2008)
Danish to English
+ ...
This sounds strange to me? Oct 10, 2009

blomguib wrote:



Three months later, I tried to transfer the rest (about 300 euros)....imagine my surprise when the transfer was not carried out because there is also a yearly limit...supposedly around 1100 euros...



I don't know if there are differences between various countries, but I have transferred, and without any problems what so ever, more than $ 3,000.00 in about three months, to my linked bank account.

As for the limit. I also started out with, I believe it was $ 500.00, but could easily raise it on the site, to what as far as I know is an unlimited amount at present.

Maybe PP USA is different?

Lise


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Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:32
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
feedback from asker Oct 10, 2009

To Tom in London:
Just because PayPal quite hefty fees, I used to use PayPal for smaller amounts and use the banks for bigger amounts as banks charges also apply to small amounts, so they are relatively high but for large amounts you'd be better off using the bank. Your client probably suggested PayPal to avoid his high bank charges. I think if you offer to pay halves then you'd both better off.

As to leaving only small change in a PayPal account. That is just what I did, however, several clients paid at the same time and when I tried to transfer the money to my bank account, just like Blomguib's story, it turned out that I had suddenly reached my "maximum" that, incidentally, they had set to 'protect me'. They then wanted to see documents, which fine and this is what I did, however, we are still arguing over that 'my name does not match the name on my account'. There are about 3 different departments involved and it appears that the left hand there does not know what the right hand is doing. The call center are just a bunch of stonewallers.

This what I mean by 'bait and switch' technique: they hook you in and then after you have some money, they freeze your account. I would not advise anyone to open a PayPal account for this reason.


To PVovs:
As was common usage 30 years ago when getting married, I took my husband's last name and still use this to this day. But because I got married abroad, my Dutch passport still reflects my maiden name, which is also not too uncommon. You'd think this would be easily solved, by submitting official documents thereto, but PayPal is extremely difficult. I believe that in order to use my money to generate interest for them they are being deliberately awkward.

To Blomguib:
Nice to see you again, nice! Your story sounds a bit like mine. Amazing what they can dream up later when one is suddenly confronted with yet another button on the interface blocking one's money! Yes needless to say that I will also vote with my feet if I ever get my money out of there.


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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:32
Flemish to English
+ ...
Business account? Oct 10, 2009

Have been using Paypal to make payments only. A while ago, a client paid by credit-card for a day's interpreting (500 euros). For the customer to be able to do so, I had to change to a business account and Paypal took a hefty 3.29% on that payment.
No problem transferring it to my bank account.Is this limit also valid for a business account?
Is moneybookers also full of surprises?

[Edited at 2009-10-10 08:51 GMT]


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:32
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I'm dreaming..... Oct 10, 2009

Perhaps one day Proz.com will set up its own not-for-profit payments system (or for profit, but with a standard fee per transaction regardless of the amount, a fair currency exchange rate, and no "funny business" such as blocking your account etc.)....

.....or maybe this is just Saturday dreaming....

[Edited at 2009-10-10 09:52 GMT]


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Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:32
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
feedback from asker Oct 10, 2009

Lise, I think you have to be very careful from now on as one day you might find your account frozen without prior warning. You might be asked for all types of personal documents. None of which they can verify anyway as these are just scans of the original. This is the strange part. You might suddenly be confronted with a limit that they have set 'for your protection.' Then it could be anywhere up to six months or never that you get your money back. It is ALWAYS better to use regular banks for big amounts. PayPal claims to be a bank, but they are not.

To Williamson:

It is indeed strange that you should have to open a business account and take a percentage off that. The same applies to you for my answer to Lise above.

I feel Moneybookers is one of a kind. They are also a clearing house and not a bank and I will close my account with them too, just in case.


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Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:32
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Other ways of receiving small payments Oct 10, 2009

Hi Williamson,

Your answer "Perhaps one day Proz.com will set up its own not-for-profit payments system (or for profit, but with a standard fee per transaction regardless of the amount, a fair currency exchange rate, and no "funny business" such as blocking your account etc.)...."

I was having the very same thoughts.

I think we can use our ProZ wallets, but wonder what our good old ProZ would do after a while. I wonder if they's become as customer-unfriendly as PayPal. I realize that they are also subject to global banking regulations and European banking regulations. I will submit a support request to see what can be done here. Perhaps giving them a copy of your invoice listing your tax number should suffice and then a copy of your quarterly submission to the tax authorities or something like that.

I will keep you informed!

Best regards,
Marijke

PS If anyone has any other thoughts on other companies to transfer small payments, I'd welcome your input!


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:32
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Not Williamson Oct 10, 2009

It was me !!

I've thought of a name: ProzPay.

Well.... it's a start

[Edited at 2009-10-10 10:10 GMT]


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Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:32
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
ProzPay YAY!!!! Oct 10, 2009

Cool, Tom!!!!

Sorry about addressing your wrong!!!!!!!!!!! It is kind of hard to scroll down to look at all the answers while writing on the forum.

By the way, I put in a request at ProZ to this effect.

I am now on the phone with someone who says that PayPal did the same to him and that also Moneybookers does the same thing!

He also told me that only after a year, PayPal released his funds! Nice customer relations huh.

Marijke


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:32
Member (2008)
Italian to English
% Oct 10, 2009

NAturally you and I should have a percentage on every transaction (since it was we who thought of the idea).



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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:32
Flemish to English
+ ...
Conclusion Oct 10, 2009

Both with PayPal and Moneybookers, 400 euros is the maximum allowed amount? Anything about that sum means you run into troubles to get your money transferred to a regular account, even if you are a "verified customer".

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