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Does anyone know about this new translation platform?
Thread poster: Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:23
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Jul 24

Does anyone have information about or experience with the translation platform "iLing.pro" that they are willing to share (either in this form or via personal e-mail to me)?

I just received an e-mail from them and went ahead and registered.

Any information would be much appreciated!


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Lianne van de Ven  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:23
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Official translation Jul 24

What would the alternative be? Unofficial translation?

As far as what I know about this new platform, I am skeptical and I think there are tons of sites like that. I would not sign up. They are in a SmartVirtualOffice and the domain registrant is in Australia - as usual in a building that is for lease/for sale.


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Teresa Borges
Portugal
Local time: 01:23
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Never heard of them... Jul 24

... but after reading their payment terms:

"iLing.pro pays translators for their work after charging a small percentage to clients, currently set at 25%. For example, if a translator invoices a client for $100, he or she will receive from iLing.pro the exact amount billed – $100.

The system will automatically add an amount of $25 (including payment system fee) to the amount charged to the client, meaning the Client will pay $125 for the job – $100 goes to the translator, $25 goes to iLing.pro.

iLing.pro will retain money in trust in USD.

Translators receive payments in USD into their personal bank account or PayPal account whatever they choose. The USD currency will be converted into local currency depending on translator’s financial institution."

I'm just not interested!


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:23
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Why? Jul 24

Teresa Borges wrote:

... but after reading their payment terms:

"iLing.pro pays translators for their work after charging a small percentage to clients, currently set at 25%. For example, if a translator invoices a client for $100, he or she will receive from iLing.pro the exact amount billed – $100.

The system will automatically add an amount of $25 (including payment system fee) to the amount charged to the client, meaning the Client will pay $125 for the job – $100 goes to the translator, $25 goes to iLing.pro.

iLing.pro will retain money in trust in USD.

Translators receive payments in USD into their personal bank account or PayPal account whatever they choose. The USD currency will be converted into local currency depending on translator’s financial institution."

I'm just not interested!


Why exactly, if I may ask?


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Teresa Borges
Portugal
Local time: 01:23
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Well... Jul 24

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Teresa Borges wrote:

... but after reading their payment terms:

"iLing.pro pays translators for their work after charging a small percentage to clients, currently set at 25%. For example, if a translator invoices a client for $100, he or she will receive from iLing.pro the exact amount billed – $100.

The system will automatically add an amount of $25 (including payment system fee) to the amount charged to the client, meaning the Client will pay $125 for the job – $100 goes to the translator, $25 goes to iLing.pro.

iLing.pro will retain money in trust in USD.

Translators receive payments in USD into their personal bank account or PayPal account whatever they choose. The USD currency will be converted into local currency depending on translator’s financial institution."

I'm just not interested!


Why exactly, if I may ask?


... I’ll answer gladly: because my rates are on the high end and I don’t see any client accepting to pay 25% more.


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 23:23
English to Portuguese
+ ...
New translation portals come up all the time Jul 24

Every now and then I get an e-mail message like last week's:

Ytranslate is the world's first crowdsourced translation marketplace marrying human translation with machine learning.

Still testing in beta phase, bringing translators and translation employers together, we provide an environment that combines an unparalleled choice of translators with easy visibility and access to your translation jobs.

The platform offers crowdsourced human translation or machine translation with post human editing.

We are officially launching our platform on August 1st 2017.

Working with 500 customers in over 25 countries, we can offer a choice of translation jobs.

Our platform uses escrow prepayment to ensure payment for translation services. You do not have to worry about not getting paid for your services.

So, where have you been applying for your translation jobs?

We can't tell you how often our translators have told us that they cannot find good translation agencies to work for and how many times they have not been paid by some unprofessional translation agencies.

Register to use our beta platform now and see which jobs you could be applying for through our brand new translation marketplace!


What's interesting here is that they'll be launching their platform next August 1st, however they implicit that they are "working with 500 customers in 25 countries"!

So I go to their web site, open the "About" page, and they make no secret of their intent (my emphasis here):

What is Y Translate?
Y Translate platform eliminates language barriers by combining machine and human translation for the best of both worlds- speed and accuracy at a fifth of the price of traditional translators. Y translate’s use of artificial intelligence and crowd sourced translation help businesses expand globally.


We, Prozians, know that very well: just another bottom-feeder using PEMT.


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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:23
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Jose Jul 24

I've received such e-mails myself.

The interesting thing about iLing.pro (and the reason that I went ahead and signed up with them) is that their pitch was along the lines of "stop getting ripped off by greedy agencies and start getting treated like the professional you are."

In addition, iLing.pro *only* accepts translators with some kind of formal certificate.

So in principle, a promising idea. The outfit serves as a broker and takes its cut. As long as the fee negotiated is acceptable to the translator, and the translator does a good job and gets paid on time, then everyone is happy.

The translator simply has to understand that they are on their own (i.e., no one will be proofing the work to catch and fix errors). So this is something that needs to be considered in quoting through that platform.

The other main downside I see is that 25% strikes me as a very steep cut for a platform acting as nothing more than a broker.

[Edited at 2017-07-24 20:33 GMT]


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 23:23
English to Portuguese
+ ...
What VALUE do they add? Jul 24

Robert Forstag wrote:
The interesting thing about iLing.pro (and the reason that I went ahead and signed up with them) is that their pitch was along the lines of "stop getting ripped off by greedy agencies and start getting treated like the professional you are."


Indeed! The professional translator is spared from getting ripped off by greedy agencies, while the end-client gets ripped off (25%) by a greedier in-between who adds NO value whatsoever!

Robert Forstag wrote:
So in principle, a promising idea. The outfit serves as a broker and takes its cut. As long as the fee negotiated is acceptable to the translator, and the translator does a good job and gets paid on time, then everyone is happy.


I don't think end-clients will be happy if they contact me directly, say, via my web site, and find out they can get exactly the same service for 25% less.

Robert Forstag wrote:
The translator simply has to understand that they are on their own (i.e., no one will be proofing the work to catch and fix errors). So this is something that needs to be considered in quoting through that platform.


That's the very point! What is the end-client paying 25% extra for?
I call these service providers "file-pushers".
I had the opportunity to exchange a few e-mails with a very nice gentleman in India (though his English was horrible) who was the authentic file-pusher. He told me he made USD 0.5¢ (half cent) on each word by merely relaying translation jobs back and forth between pairs of translation agencies in India. He said that doing it in large volumes enabled him to afford a relatively ritzy lifestyle in his country.

Let's compare a 10K-words project at, say, 10¢/word to use a round figure.
The translator gets $1,000.
That man in India will surcharge 10,000 words @ $0.005 = $50.
This novelty outfit will charge a 25% fee, i.e. $250 extra from the end-client.
Both will be merely pushing files back and forth.

[Edited at 2017-07-24 21:09 GMT]


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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 08:23
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
New evolution of translation business Jul 25

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

Let's compare a 10K-words project at, say, 10¢/word to use a round figure.
The translator gets $1,000.
That man in India will surcharge 10,000 words @ $0.005 = $50.
This novelty outfit will charge a 25% fee, i.e. $250 extra from the end-client.
Both will be merely pushing files back and forth.


Thanks to the post. This is the first time I ever heard of such payment scheme.
I have a number of records on such advanced systems that never paid me due to its unpopularity. I worked for free into new agencies that decay with time elapse.
Please be aware!

Dr. Soonthon Lupkitaro
Bangkok, Thailand


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:23
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Agencies' markup Jul 25

Teresa Borges wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Teresa Borges wrote:

I'm just not interested!


Why exactly, if I may ask?


... I’ll answer gladly: because my rates are on the high end and I don’t see any client accepting to pay 25% more.


Thank you. I see. That's what I had thought myself at first when I saw that percentage, but then I also thought that when I'm working through agencies, they're already adding a similar or greater markup to my rates before reselling my translations to their clients, only in that case the clients only see the final price and don't realize how much more they're paying...

At any rate, if that's the only issue you're seeing with this, then the only downside would be to get no work through that platform, although it would supposedly serve as an additional marketing channel for your services.

As for me, I'm more concerned with its trustworthiness and reputation and its effectiveness in attracting traffic and (good) clients.


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:23
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Extra fees Jul 25

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

I don't think end-clients will be happy if they contact me directly, say, via my web site, and find out they can get exactly the same service for 25% less.

That's the very point! What is the end-client paying 25% extra for?
I call these service providers "file-pushers".


I guess your (and the client's) identity on that portal wouldn't be public, and there would be an agreement in place forbidding client and translator from exchanging personal data... Either that, or jobs there would only be one-offs, as following business would bypass the platform entirely.

As for the 25% markup, while I agree, that (i.e. "file pushing") sometimes happens with agencies too.
You could say the clients pay so that they don't have to search and select translators themselves (because someone else already did the screening for them), nor set up intricate agreements, and also because they have this middleman acting as a sort of guarantor towards payment and translation quality...


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Natasha Ziada  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 11:23
English to Dutch
+ ...
Added value of agencies Jul 25

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Thank you. I see. That's what I had thought myself at first when I saw that percentage, but then I also thought that when I'm working through agencies, they're already adding a similar or greater markup to my rates before reselling my translations to their clients, only in that case the clients only see the final price and don't realize how much more they're paying...



Surely, agencies - the good ones - provide the added value of a review by a professional proofreader, plus an actual contact for any queries, assistance etc. They will want to deliver quality, as their name is on the line. iLing.pro's terms clearly state that they don't hold any responsibility for the quality of the translation. From a potential client's point of view, I don't see any added value in iLing.pro's setup compared to contacting a translator directly or through Proz.com, for example.


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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:23
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
The good agencies Jul 25

Natasha Ziada wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Thank you. I see. That's what I had thought myself at first when I saw that percentage, but then I also thought that when I'm working through agencies, they're already adding a similar or greater markup to my rates before reselling my translations to their clients, only in that case the clients only see the final price and don't realize how much more they're paying...



Surely, agencies - the good ones - provide the added value of a review by a professional proofreader, plus an actual contact for any queries, assistance etc. They will want to deliver quality, as their name is on the line. iLing.pro's terms clearly state that they don't hold any responsibility for the quality of the translation. From a potential client's point of view, I don't see any added value in iLing.pro's setup compared to contacting a translator directly or through Proz.com, for example.


In fact, in my other post I also wrote "that (i.e. "file pushing") sometimes happens with agencies too". But even when that does not happen, as in the case you mention: the proofreading (IF asked by the client) is physically done by another translator, not by "the agency", with yet another markup; the queries management is often "query pushing", to use José's words; the "assistance" may mean a number of things, from mediation with the end client (which may or may not be an added value) to resolving issues with the CAT tool they decided to use (thing for which they're probably also asking you for "discounts"), etc.

What is similar in both cases (in theory) is, IMO, what I wrote before, that is: "You could say the clients pay [a markup] so that they don't have to search and select translators themselves (because someone else already did the screening for them), nor set up intricate agreements, and also because they have this middleman acting as a sort of guarantor towards payment and translation quality...".

From a translator's perspective, what is the real added value of working with an agency? In my opinion, the fact it's the agency that does the marketing and looks for clients, and that it attracts clients who don't want to "lose time" managing translators themselves... but quite often we do pay dearly for that (compared to what an end client would pay for the same level of service from us).


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 23:23
English to Portuguese
+ ...
A roundup on adding value Jul 25

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

From a translator's perspective, what is the real added value of working with an agency? In my opinion, the fact it's the agency that does the marketing and looks for clients, and that it attracts clients who don't want to "lose time" managing translators themselves... but quite often we do pay dearly for that (compared to what an end client would pay for the same level of service from us).


I think I covered most bases in a rather pragmatic, ready-to-use (by translation end-clients) format a few years ago, when I wrote Should you hire a Freelance Translator or a Translation Agency?.

Now and then I get a request where I suggest the prospect should contact a translation agency, and recommend one of my clients. Typically, this happens when the client needs translation (and sometimes DTP too) into several different languages.

Also now and then a translation agency asks me to handle a request from one of their clients directly. Typically, this involves video dubbing or subtitling, where too many Q&As and consequent decisions will take too much time of their PMs to relay back and forth.


IMHO what translation agencies should do - and very few do it - in order to add value and thus motivate translators to prefer working through them is:
a) Undertake due diligence to check the end client's creditworthiness, providing guaranteed payment to the translator, no matter what;
b) Handle the entire financing side of the translation, in order to pay translators COD (viz. as soon as deliverables have been "approved"); if the end-client wants to pay in 30, 45, 60 or more days, secure loans if necessary, and charge proper interest rates (instead of securing interest-free loans from translators); and
c) Accept each translator's rates, and apply their markup on them. If the end-client needs/wants a "cheaper" service, explain them the consequences, and hire lower grade/cheaper translators, instead of obdurately trying to force high-quality professionals to work for peanuts.


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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:23
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The difference Jul 25

Natasha Ziada wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Thank you. I see. That's what I had thought myself at first when I saw that percentage, but then I also thought that when I'm working through agencies, they're already adding a similar or greater markup to my rates before reselling my translations to their clients, only in that case the clients only see the final price and don't realize how much more they're paying...



Surely, agencies - the good ones - provide the added value of a review by a professional proofreader, plus an actual contact for any queries, assistance etc. They will want to deliver quality, as their name is on the line. iLing.pro's terms clearly state that they don't hold any responsibility for the quality of the translation. From a potential client's point of view, I don't see any added value in iLing.pro's setup compared to contacting a translator directly or through Proz.com, for example.


I see two main differences between hiring a translator through iLing.pro and proz.com:
1.
iLing.pro only accepts translators in its database who have at least one verified credential of some kind (while anyone can set up a profile at proz.com). Yes there is the red "P" and "verified credentials," but these require extra searching.
2.
The ratings system on iLing.pro seems designed to help translation buyers make their decision (and, in contrast to the WWA system but like its Blue Board, seems to allow the possibility of negative ratings).

[Edited at 2017-07-25 11:59 GMT]


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