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Odgovornost prevodioca
Thread poster: Ulvija Tanovic

Ulvija Tanovic
Local time: 15:23
English to Bosnian
+ ...
Nov 25, 2004

preneseno sa www.sarajevo-x.com/forum

citat iz Ferala

[quote="Prenj"]
BOSANCI-BRĐANI
25. studenoga, 2004.

Kao prvo elim da pozdravim redakciju Ferala. Zovem se Igor, rođen sam i ivim u BiH, imam 28 godina. Sinoć sam slučajno prebacio na Novu TV i ba u to vrijeme se prikazivao dječji američki film Inspector Gadget. E zbog čega je to sve bitno? Zadnjih 10 godina radim kao prevoditelj za međunarodne organizacije u BiH.

U sinoćnjem filmu prevoditelj rečenicu "He looks like a hillbilly in a suit" prevodi kao "Izgleda ko Bosanac u odijelu". Ja nisam mogao vjerovat očima kad sam na ekranu ugledao prijevod. Boe to ne zapamti ime prevoditelja. Za njegovu ili njenu informaciju Hillbilly ne znači Bosanac nego seljak ili bolje rečeno brđanin. E sad vjerovatno nije i potrebno neko zavidno znanje da bi se to znalo to znači da je gospon prevoditelj pokuao da ispadne smijean i iznese svoju mrnju prema Bosancima radeći svoj posao. Kakva sramota. Takvim ispadima dokazuje svoju neprofesionalnost, neetičnost, neznanje (nisu svi Bosanci seljaci).

-- Va čitatelj Igor


 

Seadeta Osmani  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 15:23
English to Croatian
+ ...
Bez politicke konotacije, ali iz iskustva: Nov 27, 2004

Najtuznije od svega spomenuti film kategorizira se kao djecji...
Kao rezultat stavova slicnih stavu prevoditelja filma, danasnja djeca roditelja podrijetlom iz Bosne, a koja pohadjaju osnovne skole u Zagrebu, cuju od vrsnjaka u situacijama u kojima se nekome zeli reci "Bas si glup" ili slicno, recenice tipa "Bas si bosanac" i silno pate jer su "bosanci"; sto god da to znacilo, oni to ne zele biti jer su time "obiljezeni".

Priznamo li da djeca gledaju filmove, upijaju recenice i oponasaju starije, rekla bih da je odgovornost prevoditelja zaista velika.

Bilo bi zanimljivo u bosanskom prijevodu istog filma umjesto Bosanca procitati nekog drugog s ovih prostora... Zanima me kako bi na to reagirale ne-bosanske kolege.

Zato, u ovim osjetljivim vremenima i na ovim povrijedjenim prostorima, pozivam na izbjegavanje, izbjegavanje, izbjegavanje uporabe slicnih nesretnih formulacija prijevoda.


 

Almir Comor MITI  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:23
Member (2004)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Balkanizam Nov 29, 2004

E Ulvija, long time no seeicon_smile.gif

Ja bih to nazvao prosto nasim balkanizmom (ili mozda zapadnim balkanizmomicon_smile.gif

Odgovornost lezi i na uredniku, mozda i vise nego na prevodiocu


 

Ulvija Tanovic
Local time: 15:23
English to Bosnian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
odgovornost sigurno snosi više ljudi Nov 29, 2004

ćao, Almire, čestitam na Platiniicon_smile.gif fercera li?

Sigurno je odgovornost i urednika i lektora i svih onih koji su vidjeli taj titl i nisu "odreagovali". To je zapravo ono to najvie zabrinjava. Da se ovakav titl pojavio na nekom piratskom izdanju, ili na nekoj nierazrednoj TV stanici, pa hajde. Ali ovo se deava na Novoj TV, to znači da su titlovi morali proći čitavu proceduru sa vie provjera. I nikom nije zasmetalo to se u dječijem filmu Bosanci ovako karakteriu. Uopte nisam neki veliki zagovornik političke korektnosti, naprotiv, ali ovakve stvari se zaista ne bi smjele deavati. Pogotovo ne prevodiocima. Voljela bih da mislim da smo mi (prevodioci) sa naim znanjima drugih jezika i kultura osjetiljiviji na uvredljive nijanse u jeziku.


 

vorloff
Bosnian to English
+ ...
If you don't believe in political corectness, then why are you offended? Nov 30, 2004

...or do you only believe in it when it has something to do with you. Sorry, but it really bothers me when people laugh at the idea that one should be careful about how they go about using the language to avoid being offensive or propagating negative stereotypes, but then cry foul as soon as something happens to be offensive to them. Why has political corectness, like feminism, gotten a bad rap? Because even those who in practice believe in them (at least when it affects them) refuse to be associated with them. So, Ulvija, don't be so quick to distance yourself from political corectness, since your post obviously indicates that you don't find the idea to be so ridiculous.

 

Almir Comor MITI  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:23
Member (2004)
English to Croatian
+ ...
ne bih se bas slozio s verom Nov 30, 2004

ne mislim da je ovdje rijec o politickoj korektnosti.

vera, da li biste i antisemitizam smatrali pitanjem politicke korektnosti? ili, mozda bosanci ipak jesu brdjani po definiciji, ali eto ne vole kad ih se tako zove?

naravno, ne pada mi na pamet da ovo poredim s antisemitiznom, ali ipak je rijec o necemu uvredljivom. siguran sam da se i englezi znaju ocesati o francuze, pa francuzi o njemce, njemci o ruse... medjutim, prije 10-tak godina je na balkanu vodjen jedan strasan rat i ovakve stvari sigurno nisu dobrodosle. trebaju li djeca odrastati u uvjerenju da svako ko ne pripada njihovom narodu ne zavredjuje da zivi? pa da onda za nekih 20-30 godina budu u top formi za jos jedan rat?

PS @ Ulvija
platinum fercera, zadovoljan samicon_smile.gif

[Edited at 2004-11-30 07:47]


 

vorloff
Bosnian to English
+ ...
The point of political correctness is to not offend others... Nov 30, 2004

... and to put an end to the use of negative stereotypes. So why be so quick to claim to not be a fan of political correctness? That is my point. If political correctness weren't viewed as such a trifle, silly thing ('it's all in good fun', until it's you as the butt of the joke), then we would all be better off, war or no war. And yes, anti-semitism is not politically correct. Neither is a joke at the expense of Bosnians, African Americans, Montenegrins, Roma, etc, etc.

By the way, why not take this topic up with the translator and station that aired the program? All it takes is a computer, piece of paper, address, and stamp. As translators, we probably all have these things on hand, or can easily get to them. But being dismissive about political correctness should probably be struck out of the appeal...It kind of goes against the point.


 

Seadeta Osmani  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 15:23
English to Croatian
+ ...
Moram reci... Nov 30, 2004

...da se slazem s Verom. Politicki korektno samo je drugi naziv za neuvredljivo. A to bi se trebalo odnositi na sve prema svima.

Konkretno, da je prevoditelj umjesto "Bosanca u odijelu" napisao "Mujo u odijelu", na ovim bi prostorima takodjer bilo uvredljivo. Ono sto je prevoditelj iz Hrvatske (mislim da se radi o prevoditelju iz Hrvatske, obzirom da je to Nova TV) mogao uciniti kako bi izbjegao vrijedjanje a opet bio jasan, jest napisati, recimo, "Dudek u odijelu"-- svi u Hrvatskoj znaju tko je Dudek, radi se o knjizevno-televizijskom liku koji ne bi nikoga uvrijedio.

Povremeno se "ocesati" o neku naciju ili vjeru nije simpaticno, jer eto, prestaje biti simpaticno ako se X na koga je Y osjetljiv "ocese" o Y. Da se Z, na koga Y nije osjetljiv, nasalio s Y, ne bi bilo uvredljivo, kazete? Vrlo, vrlo nestabilan teren. Jer se sutra mogu zaratiti Y i Z. I sto onda? Mijenjajmo razmisljanja cijelim generacijama...

Dakle, glas ZA politicku korektnost...

Seadeta


 

Almir Comor MITI  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:23
Member (2004)
English to Croatian
+ ...
apologies to vera Nov 30, 2004

you're absolutely right.

 

Ulvija Tanovic
Local time: 15:23
English to Bosnian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The reason why I'm not a proponent of PC... Nov 30, 2004

... and the reason why PC has gotten a "bad rep" as Vera says is that you can be politically correct on paper/in public, but still THINK all the bigoted things that you think. It is much too easy to just stop at political correctness and say: "Oh, goodie, X isn't insulting Y and Y isn't insulting Z and nobody is insulting anybody (they all hate each other of course, but they're dreadfully polite about it), what a wonderful world!"

I'd like to think of myself as a proponent of something much deeper than political correctness: Genuine respect.

If this un-PC subtitle were merely that, if it was a single mistake on the part of a single translator, I wouldn't be making all this fuss. What bothers me is that such a subtitle can pass through the system of a large Media company (and maybe even the Croatian media in general) and not cause an outrage or at least a slight discomfort.

Also, this is not something that happens often. Croatian TV stations cannot really be accused of being "politically INcorrect", which is why I think this little episode is very telling. And it also may explain why political correctness is becoming synonymous with hypocrisy.


 

Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 15:23
Bosnian to French
+ ...
K'o po jajima... Nov 30, 2004

Ne bih zelio da se ova diskusija zavrsi u kafansku svadju, stoga bih vas zamolio da se ne udaljavate od teme i da ako vodite debatu o problemima prevoda, ne ukljucujete zemlje, vlade, rukovodstva, firme, tv mreze, itd. Debatu o lingvistici i prevodu je moguce voditi opcenito, cak i o ovom konkretnom slucaju, no ako niste zadovoljni nekom TV mrezom ili pojedinim prevodiocima, mislim da ovdje nije bas najbolje mjesto za tu vrstu diskusije.

Keep onicon_smile.gif

[Edited at 2004-11-30 20:21]


 

vorloff
Bosnian to English
+ ...
Inspector Gadget Dec 1, 2004

Ok, Said, admit it - you did the subtitle translations for Inspector Gadget. Don't worry, we won't take up a letter writing campaign as long as you promise to be more politically correct in the future...

Ulvija: point well taken that it is respect that is important, but language is a powerful thing, and there is no way that kids are going to grow up having respect for others if their parents, teachers, etc don't stop making comments and jokes about people of different nationalities or what have you. You can't change the way people feel inside, but you can frown on the language they use, and opinions they express, and hopefully slowly start to change society's acceptance of negative stereotypes.


 

Ulvija Tanovic
Local time: 15:23
English to Bosnian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Good thing we all agree... Dec 1, 2004

Vera, that is exactly what I mean. Language IS a very powerful tool. And it would be a shame to use it merely superficially. Political corectness for its own sake is something pro forma, it is void of any meaning and as such cannot hope to effect people on a deeper level. That is why I put "responsibility" in the heading of this topic. I'm afraid of politically correct language being reduced to just another grammatical rule. That may be effective in the short term, but it is nowhere near enough.
Becuase language is so powerful, I believe that we as translators in particular must be responsible when using it (Permit me a quote from Spiderman: "With great power comes great responsibility").


 

Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 15:23
Bosnian to French
+ ...
I am not saying a word without my lawyer :-p Dec 18, 2004

Vera Orloff wrote:

Ok, Said, admit it - you did the subtitle translations for Inspector Gadget. Don't worry, we won't take up a letter writing campaign as long as you promise to be more politically correct in the future...




icon_smile.gif I swear it wasn't meicon_razz.gif


 

Andjelo Miklic
Local time: 15:23
English to Croatian
+ ...
Glas ZA! Dec 22, 2004

Ulvija Tanovic wrote:

preneseno sa www.sarajevo-x.com/forum

citat iz Ferala

[quote="Prenj"][img]...He looks like a hillbilly in a suit"...




Slaem se da je bilo nekorektno to prevesti kao "Bosanac", ali moram naglasiti da se to često koristi i u uobičajenom govoru među ljudima. Ma koliko to bilo glupo i neetično, jer, to netko na forumu reče, nisu svi Bosanci seljaci.

Onda, isto tako nisu niti svi "brđani" (ljudi koji ive u planini) "seljaci".

Mnogo je ovdje navodnika i zagrada potrebno, a miljenja sam da nema veze sa politikom, nego sa općom kulturom.


 
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