| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | A proposal made about creating a cooperative - Would it be interesting to you? Thread poster: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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I think that points 1-3-4-8 won't be accepted by freelancers, and points 5-6-7 won't be accepted by clients.
That said, collaboration with fellow translators is key in our trade.
Best,
Maurizio
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 06:49
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Would I join such a system? I might, if by joining it I can remain a free person.
Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
1. Cooperative system, i.e. freelancers share the capital and costs of the company equally. (Exact legal entity and residence are still under discussion.)
I have no problem with this. After rall, at ProZ.com, those who get few jobs pay as much as those who get many jobs. Still, I'm in favour of a system that would reward members for various things possibly by reducing the amount of their contribution (eg if they supply a lead that results in paid work).
2. The decision as to how to share income and profits will be made by voting. All business decisions will be made by voting. Ideas will be shared, discussed and voted with online systems.
I'm in favour of voting, but I also trust expertise. Sheer numbers don't always make a right, and the voting system will have to be designed to respect that. A system of non-binding referendums may also be useful (whereby a managing committee makes decisions based on referendum results, without being specifically bound by them).
3. All interaction between shareholders will be online, even at the development and incorporation stage. No traveling or meetings in person.
Well, after the initial flurry of organisation, yes, that could work. Still, it should not be prohibited for translators to meet. Personally I don't see the use or need of this "online only" point, except for novelty value.
4. It is estimated that an initial investment of Eur 6000 per shareholder will be needed.
If I remember correctly, this was just a wild number thrown into the discussion to indicate the degree of commitment that would be requested of founding members. I agree with the principle of showing commitment, but I think it can be done in some other way than paying a large sum of money.
5. A global translation memory will be created, which all members will share and use together for all customers.
I have no objection to this, but there would be logistical issues.
6. Non-disclosure agreements with customers will not be accepted. Their translations will be added to the global translation memory.
I don't think this was the final consensus of the previous threads. The only problem with the non-disclosure is that it may impede a translation getting added to the global TM. Therefore there need not necessarily be a complete prohibition on non-disclosure agreements -- only on such agreements that may make the text unavailable for the global TM.
Remember, the idea is not that *all* clients of a translator must be enrolled into the cooperative system. The partial prohibition on non-disclosure agreements apply only to clients gained via the cooperative or clients making use of the cooperative. I would think that a translator could still do freelance work outside the cooperative for clients who would not "benefit" from the global TM and who would not be forced into the rules of the cooperative. Do I understand this correctly?
7. Customers will be expected to use the cooperative's systems and methods for their orders and interaction with the translation force.
There is nothing unusual about this. It is same as saying clients who found translators via an agency are expected to use the agency for all their contact with that translator. Clients who met translators via the cooperative should be expected not to make private deals with those translators, for a certain period of time.
8. (Still under discussion) Members would work solely in the cooperative, with no services offered independently.
This is simply not practical.
Should this idea become a reality, would you be interested in joining? YES or NO?
YES, if the decision of #8 is that translators remain free to accept work outside the cooperative.
| | | | | Thanks Samuel! | Sep 23, 2008 |
Thanks a lot Samuel. Let's postpone a more thorough discussion until later on. It is important so that we can quickly assess how many people are really interested.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 06:49
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Removed by myself... see Tomas' post above
[Edited at 2008-09-23 11:38]
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RobinB
United States
Local time: 23:49
German to English
| A non-starter | Sep 23, 2008 |
1. Cooperative system, i.e. freelancers share the capital and costs of the company equally. (Exact legal entity and residence are still under discussion.)
What capital, exactly?
2. The decision as to how to share income and profits will be made by voting. All business decisions will be made by voting. Ideas will be shared, discussed and voted with online systems.
Decisions on income/profit sharing have to be stipulated in the constitutional documents of the cooperative. Normally, cooperative members get a share of the profits that's directly linked to their capital share. Additionally, you could conceivably have a revenue-based element, i.e. members who generate more revenue get more profit.
3. All interaction between shareholders will be online, even at the development and incorporation stage. No traveling or meetings in person.
Would you set up a business with people you don't know personally?
4. It is estimated that an initial investment of Eur 6000 per shareholder will be needed.
Uh-huh. Let's see the figures...
5. A global translation memory will be created, which all members will share and use together for all customers.
A non-starter, for business and legal reasons. Though it could work at the very low end of the market (commodity-driven mass market). But that rules out the EUR 6k investment...
6. Non-disclosure agreements with customers will not be accepted. Their translations will be added to the global translation memory.
Sounds rather like the old Lufthansa motto (until they discovered customer service): "Thank us for flying you".
7. Customers will be expected to use the cooperative's systems and methods for their orders and interaction with the translation force.
Not going to have many customers, is it..
8. (Still under discussion) Members would work solely in the cooperative, with no services offered independently.
Yeah, right..
The notion of a translation cooperative certainly has its merits, though experience (in Germany at least) has shown that translators don't necessarily have the sort of personality that lends itself to this sort of idealistc teamwork. Partnerships and companies have enjoyed much more success, largely because of the small number of members and their ability to focus on the main thing.
These proposals look to me more like a massive ego trip than a serious business proposition. To be perfectly honest, there's little point in polling opinions/attitudes until you (or whoever) can come up with a viable draft business plan
Robin
| | | | | Samuel, let's stay on the topic please | Sep 23, 2008 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
But if the client found you via an agency, and if you have a non-poaching agreement with your agency, would you not share confidential information with the agency?
Samuel, I think we all would like to know how many people are interested. Please postpone the discussion for a couple of days for now, just not to clutter the topic. We can always come back to the details by the end of the week. Thank you!
| | | | | Non-starter II | Sep 23, 2008 |
Since you are only gauging interest at this stage, suffice it to say "NOT interested". I won't bother elaborating, other than to say I agree it's a non-starter for many of the reasons already mentioned, especially by Nicole and RobinB, and others.
| | | | | Thanks a million Lawyer-Linguist! | Sep 23, 2008 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
Since you are only gauging interest at this stage, suffice it to say "NOT interested". I won't bother elaborating, other than to say I agree it's a non-starter for many of the reasons already mentioned, especially by Nicole and RobinB, and others.
Thanks a million for this very concise statement!  Obrigadissimo! (I promise that we will go into the details later on if you wish!)
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Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:49
Spanish to English
For various reasons (already discussed), but I doubt very much whether I would ever see the 6000 euros again, i.e. I am sceptical about the amount of profit this would make, and how it would be divided up (how do you assess whether each member is pulling their weight and, therefore, how much of the profits they deserve?)
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:49
Flemish to English
+ ...
You forget that you are asking this on a forum filled with individualists, ego sum-people by nature.
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 00:49
English to Spanish
+ ...
In addition to what has already been said here, Tomás, I wonder how you'd choose the colleagues who would be part of this endeavour. Obviously, the initial investment is an excellent way to separate outstanding from mediocre translators, but will there be any other selection process?
I apologize if I am veering off topic, here.
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Both for the reasons already mentioned and Nikki's point above - I learned very early in school that I didn't like group projects, because I tended to pull more than my own weight.
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| Not veering off topic! | Sep 23, 2008 |
Andrea Riffo wrote:
I apologize if I am veering off topic, here.
Thank you so much for your comment Andrea. No, you are not veering out of topic. This is central to the discussion indeed. Let's retake it later on (not that it has not been discussed in the past in other topics). Grazie!!
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Not interested whatsoever. Nothing else to add that hasn't already been said.
[Edited at 2008-09-23 13:06]
| | | | | Probably not | Sep 23, 2008 |
I'd probably not be interested in joining - for many of the reasons already cited, but mainly because I love being a freelancer and working independently. I like taking my own decisions and don't want to have to attend committee meetings and such, whether virtual or otherwise.
A cooperative might be helpful to beginners, but then, beginners probably wouldn't be able to stump up the initial joining fee (or is it an investment?) - and, as already mentioned, a cooperative pays a dividend to i... See more I'd probably not be interested in joining - for many of the reasons already cited, but mainly because I love being a freelancer and working independently. I like taking my own decisions and don't want to have to attend committee meetings and such, whether virtual or otherwise.
A cooperative might be helpful to beginners, but then, beginners probably wouldn't be able to stump up the initial joining fee (or is it an investment?) - and, as already mentioned, a cooperative pays a dividend to its members. I see this as a source of much dispute. Who does the bookkeeping? Whoever they are, they'd surely have to be paid for that arduous and responsible task.
Jenny ▲ Collapse
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