Applying Cat tool discounts when no Cat tool is being used
Thread poster: CristinaPereira

CristinaPereira  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:24
Member (2005)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Jun 13, 2009

Hi everyone,

Although I'm almost sure I'm right, I'd like to know other people's opinions.

A new client proposed me to proofread a translation. He said he still didn't know what Cat tool would be used and if I were willing to offer discounts based on repetitions. I said yes (I usually do it).

Finally, he told me no Cat tool would be used and now I received the text to be proofread, instructions, PO, etc. Imagine my surprise when I saw that a given number of words (repetitions) were discounted! If no Cat tool is being used, why should Cat tools discounts be applied? Am I missing something here?

Cristina


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Pro-Trans
France
Local time: 00:24
English to French
+ ...
CAT tool discount for proofreading?? Jun 13, 2009

Hi Cristina,

CAT tool discounts should not apply to proofreading jobs!
CAT tool discounts can be ok for translation, as a CAT tool increases our productivity and makes us translate faster, but when I get a proofreading job, I have to proofread the whole job and it doesn't make any sense to apply a discount on repetitions. And if there is a mistake in a duplicated segment, you have to correct it as many times as it is duplicated, so a CAT tool doesn't make me proofread faster at all.


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Niina Lahokoski  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 01:24
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
Agree with Pro-Trans... Jun 13, 2009

... you should not give repetition discounts for proofreading.

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CristinaPereira  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:24
Member (2005)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for confirming Jun 13, 2009

Thanks, Pro-Trans and Niina, for confirming my thoughts. What is more, there isn't even a Cat tool being used! Only a plain Word file.

Have a nice weekend,

Cristina


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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:24
Flemish to English
+ ...
No discounts Jun 13, 2009

not for reviewing, not for volumes and not for CAT-tools. Otherwise leave out the sentences which occur more than once.

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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
This is absolutely hilarious! Jun 13, 2009

Recently, there was a job here on ProZ for a translation of a handwritten text, and they requested a CAT tool!

It seems people nowadays think everything can be done with a CAT tool!


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Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Turkey
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
General Application Jun 13, 2009

Christel Zipfel wrote:

Recently, there was a job here on ProZ for a translation of a handwritten text, and they requested a CAT tool!

It seems people nowadays think everything can be done with a CAT tool!


Generally such handwritten projects consists of 2 stages
1- Typing or conversion of the handwritten text into MS Word
2- Translation by using a CAT tool.

If it is so, then I think there is no problem with asking a translator use a CAT tool during translation. But the agency should include the rate for transcription.


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Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:24
German to English
With Williamson Jun 13, 2009

Fix only the first occurrence of an error. You're not being paid to fix all of them.

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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
For proofreading: no CAT, no discount Jun 13, 2009

CristinaPereira wrote:
A new client proposed me to proofread a translation. He said he still didn't know what Cat tool would be used and if I were willing to offer discounts based on repetitions. I said yes (I usually do it).


I would be willing to give a proofreading discount for repetitions, if the CAT tool has a way of automatically correcting the segments that I had corrected previously (or at least indicate it to me, with an easy way of accepting it quickly). But if there is no segmentation, then I'm afraid the proofreader has to proofread every word individually even if they are repetitive, to ensure that there are no errors.

Imagine my surprise when I saw that a given number of words (repetitions) were discounted!


Could be just an oversight.

Alternatively, perhaps he expects you to use a CAT tool to "retranslate" the file (same source and target language, in other words). You could use OmegaT for this, for example, with the copy-source-to-target setting enabled, and using Ctrl+U to go to the next segment. But even in this case, I'd still give only discounts for 100% repetitions.


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:24
French to English
Just an idea.... Jun 13, 2009

CristinaPereira wrote:
Thanks, Pro-Trans and Niina, for confirming my thoughts. What is more, there isn't even a Cat tool being used! Only a plain Word file.

My immediate reaction, like everyone else I think, was "CAT?! With proofreading? Huh?!".
But if you know before you start that the text IS indeed repetitive, you could use a CAT tool, monolingually.
Set up a new, empty TM. For every segment, copy source to target initially, then make your changes. Next time an identical segment you have already corrected pops up, your corrected version will be proposed by the CAT tool.

So I guess you could do it.

However, I am not sure if or how you would be able to "track changes" with that method, bearing in mind most clients seem to like us to use it (in my experience - I could be wrong). I suppose "compare documents" could work, somehow...

I prefer not to try to tell people whether or not to apply discounts. Just make sure you are getting paid fairly for the effort you put in.


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Elisabete Cunha  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 23:24
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Already happened to me Jun 14, 2009

I was once asked to do something even weirder. The client wanted me to translate a normal Word file, by putting the translation below the source. We're talking about a 39-page document containing text and lots of tables. In this situation, I could not use a CAT Tool, unless I copy/pasted all segments individually, but it would be too confusing.
Nevertheless the client applied the CAT Tool discounts in the PO. I explained that I would have to charge for the total amount of words to maintain the format he wanted, since I couldn't use Trados. And to my surprise he changed his mind about the format and let me use Trados.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Answer to Elisabete Jun 14, 2009

Elisabete Cunha wrote:
The client wanted me to translate a normal Word file, by putting the translation below the source. We're talking about a 39-page document containing text and lots of tables. In this situation, I could not use a CAT Tool, unless I copy/pasted all segments individually, but it would be too confusing.


I can think of a possible way to do what your client had wanted. I assume that he wanted each paragraph's translation below it. First you'd dummy-translate the entire file with paragraph segmentation, with source = target. I would do this in Wordfast, and then not clean up. Then you'd change all the first instances of the duplicated paragraphs to an untranslatable style (in Wordfast, marching red ants). Then you'd change to sentence segmentation and translate the remaining translatable text. Clean up the translastion, and the covert the duplicated (now translated) paragraphs into neat paragraphs.


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Buck
Netherlands
Local time: 00:24
Dutch to English
Discount or not discount? Jun 14, 2009

I'd agree to the client's request, provided they accept the condition that "repetitions" will only be edited and either marked or corrected ONCE. It will be up to the client to apply the corrections to the corresponding repetitions.
You might find they are not willing to do that, and in that case, I would not give a discount.


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Elisabete Cunha  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 23:24
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
True, but... Jun 14, 2009

Hi Samuel,

Thanks for your suggestion. I haven't thought of that, mainly because I normally prefer to use Trados or SDLX. Nevertheless the rate wouldn't pay the effort, so in this situation and for this specific client I still wouldn't do it...

Have a nice Sunday!


Elisabete


Samuel Murray wrote:

Elisabete Cunha wrote:
The client wanted me to translate a normal Word file, by putting the translation below the source. We're talking about a 39-page document containing text and lots of tables. In this situation, I could not use a CAT Tool, unless I copy/pasted all segments individually, but it would be too confusing.


I can think of a possible way to do what your client had wanted. I assume that he wanted each paragraph's translation below it. First you'd dummy-translate the entire file with paragraph segmentation, with source = target. I would do this in Wordfast, and then not clean up. Then you'd change all the first instances of the duplicated paragraphs to an untranslatable style (in Wordfast, marching red ants). Then you'd change to sentence segmentation and translate the remaining translatable text. Clean up the translastion, and the covert the duplicated (now translated) paragraphs into neat paragraphs.


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CristinaPereira  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:24
Member (2005)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you! Jun 15, 2009

Thank you all for your input!

I don't know how to quote what others said in that nice beautiful manner you all do, so here it goes:

Quoting Samuel:
"Could be just an oversight." - I think this could be it too. I talked today to the client about this, but since I also said other things about the text (delivered today), he didn't do any comment. Since more work will come, I'll pay extra attention to POs

Quoting Charlie:
"But if you know before you start that the text IS indeed repetitive, you could use a CAT tool, monolingually." - It is not the kind of a repetitive text at all (which makes it all even more hilarious, I guess). When I talked about discounted words, they were just 39


Quoting Elisabete:
"The client wanted me to translate a normal Word file, by putting the translation below the source. We're talking about a 39-page document containing text and lots of tables." - I've already done this, but on small files, for subtitling. I think I wouldn't do 39 pages like this! Fortunately, no one mentioned CAT tool discounts.

In fact, I just received another proofreading job from another client and took a better look at their PO (I usually don't pay much attention to it) and noticed they pay "0" for 100% matches :S But this is done on Trados. I must have done this for a long time without knowing it! I'll have a word with them too and ask if this is right, since the PO says to review 100% matches too.

Have a nice week!

Cristina


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