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A new outsourcer posting a job for free, USD 0.008 per word
Thread poster: R Farhat

R Farhat  Identity Verified
Lebanon
Local time: 11:02
Member (2004)
English to Arabic
+ ...
Feb 13, 2010

Hello Everyone,

Is this allowed? A new outsourcer posting a job in the ENG-ARA language combination.
Rate offered USD 2.00 per 250-word page, that is USD 0.008 per word.
The offered rate per page is around half a Kuwaiti Dinar 0.500 in the local currency; it costs KD 0.750 to type a page of 250 words over there and a KD 4.000 to print out a page at a shop in the local market.

I was wondering where to post this and whether the website tolerates ads for working-for-free businesses!

Thank you.


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lexical  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:02
Portuguese to English
Of course... Feb 13, 2010

Well, of course it's allowed. The world is a free market and outsourcers can pay what they think fit. You are not obliged to accept the job.

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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:02
French to German
+ ...
And I would add Feb 13, 2010

lexical wrote:

Well, of course it's allowed. The world is a free market and outsourcers can pay what they think fit. You are not obliged to accept the job.


that maybe is allowed (lots of things are allowed nowadays, even starvation rates and people happy to accept them seem to have much wind in their sails), but it should not prevent translators who are serious about their profession to seek jobs as far away as possible from the virtual world.
But we should also reflect about the origin of this idea that "anybody can do what they think fit".

[Edited at 2010-02-13 20:33 GMT]


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R Farhat  Identity Verified
Lebanon
Local time: 11:02
Member (2004)
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
nevertheless Feb 13, 2010

This is true! However, I'm sure many of us have taken projects for free for not-for-profit and volunteer assignments, but not for business jobs. I've read a lot in the forum about low rates, yet this is the lowest by all standards so far.
Thank you for your input!


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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:02
French to German
+ ...
And this is how it should be Feb 13, 2010

Randa F wrote:

This is true! However, I'm sure many of us have taken projects for free for not-for-profit and volunteer assignments, but not for business jobs. I've read a lot in the forum about low rates, yet this is the lowest by all standards so far.
Thank you for your input!


Regardless of what happens, I prefer pro bono jobs (I am currently translating some small content for a software) to misery business jobs... Cheer up, Randa! With your experience in translation, you should really not worry about jobs posted by misers, wheelers and dealers!


[Edited at 2010-02-13 20:55 GMT]


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Dhiraj Khati  Identity Verified
Nepal
Local time: 14:47
Member (2009)
English to Nepali
+ ...
Let's hope translators know their effort and value Feb 13, 2010

If the outsourcer had asked for free in the cases of his financial condition or social work theme, then it would have worth doing. But in this kind of cases, no way. I think translators should keep their work effort and value in mind before accepting these kind of disgracing and exploiting works. That's their right to post a job hoping for least price but we should also keep our dignity. That's all.

[Edited at 2010-02-13 20:52 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Learning opportunity Feb 13, 2010

Randa F wrote:
Is this allowed? ... Rate offered USD 2.00 per 250-word page, that is USD 0.008 per word.


Of course! It is a learning opportunity for newbie translators. And what do you imagine they learn from earning USD 2.00 per page? I can only imagine...


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John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 04:02
Member (2008)
French to English
Learning opportunity Feb 14, 2010

Samuel Murray wrote:

...a learning opportunity for newbie translators.



Next, they'll be asking translators to PAY for the privilege of learning to translate. Pay USD $2.00 per page to translate my document and learn translating in the process. When you're that close to zero, it doesn't make much difference.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 11:02
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Scyscrapers are built that way Feb 14, 2010

In some place of your region a whole metropolis was built paying only peanuts to the workers and by keeping them in conditions remembering slavery. I don't mention names of course.
So it is to be expected that someone believes the same system should be applied to translation business.

Cheers
Heinrich


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Microscopic Rates Feb 14, 2010

Randa F wrote:

I was wondering where to post this and whether the website tolerates ads for working-for-free businesses!


You still have to learn a lot about what is tolerated and what is not tolerated on this website..

Concerning the microscopic rates, I have seen even lower ones in Ethiopia, but you would be surprised how well the locals can cope with it!

Although there are some decent translators who have the same problems as you, and who charge at least the average rates of the international market, the majority of the translations offices applies a different stategy:

They ask you to pay in advance and then give you something worse than a free machine translation! This is achieved by translating from a dictionary without understanding and then adding some typos in each sentence by using underpaid typists who do not speak any of the concerned languages to type in the translation from paper into the computer.

This behaviour looks catastrophic on first view, but it may be the only reasonable way to handle such rates.

When an outsourcer looks for a translator, the rates should not be the first selection criteria but rather the least ones, because they do have consequences!

(BTW, Ethiopians are complaining about Somali standards in exactly the same way as Europeans are complaining about Ethiopian standards. )

[Edited at 2010-02-14 08:56 GMT]


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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:02
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Outsourcers... Feb 14, 2010

should not be allowed to post their rates publicly... it's bad for the image of our profession... it spreads the misconception that rates in our profession are always that low... WE set the price, NOT the outsourcer and I don't really care if people waste time negotiating, because negotiating is part of our job...

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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:02
French to German
+ ...
Public rates... Feb 14, 2010

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Outsourcers should not be allowed to post their rates publicly... it's bad for the image of our profession...


Not only that: posting low rates is contrary to the free market rules - it is a form of price-fixing. Has anybody given that idea even a thought? Does not seem to be the case so far!

[Edited at 2010-02-14 11:23 GMT]


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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:02
Member (2004)
English to Italian
you might be right... Feb 14, 2010

Laurent KRAULAND wrote:

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Outsourcers should not be allowed to post their rates publicly... it's bad for the image of our profession...


Not only that: posting low rates is contrary to the free market rules - it is a form of price-fixing. Has anybody given that idea even a thought? Does not seem to be the case so far!

[Edited at 2010-02-14 11:23 GMT]


I'm not an expert, but if Proz is not allowed to impose a minimum rate, why are outsourcers allowed to impose a maximum rate?


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Paola Dentifrigi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 10:02
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Pretty clever Feb 14, 2010

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

I'm not an expert, but if Proz is not allowed to impose a minimum rate, why are outsourcers allowed to impose a maximum rate?


I agree with you, Giovanni, and with Laurent. I'd like to remind Heinrich that miserable rates are not only offered to people from the Gulf. Have a look at this (sorry, in Italian)
http://generazionepropro.corriere.it/2010/02/la_lettera_alla_ministra_bramb.html

I don't know if you are aware that an agency published a job on Proz, allegedly on behalf of the Ministry of Toursim*, proposing 9 € per page (a weird page of 2,600 characters).

We are starting taking actions (so far on the press), but it's food for thinking

Paola

* Please, let's avoid commenting that it's Italy. This regards many EU countries!


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
"imposing" rates Feb 14, 2010

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

I'm not an expert, but if Proz is not allowed to impose a minimum rate, why are outsourcers allowed to impose a maximum rate?


Because freelancers are allowed to impose minimum rates, each one for himself, like the outsourcers, and ProZ.com is just a neutral platform like many others..


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