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Translation Workspace / Lionbridge CAT tool
Thread poster: sasp

Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:32
German to Spanish
+ ...
Translation Workspace / Lionbridge Mar 6, 2010

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

...but being asked to pay for the use of a proprietary tool is not OK.

It is perfectly OK if this company asks you to use their tool. It is legitimate as it helps them work more efficiently and deliver a better service to their customers. However, I would only pay for the use of the tool is there was a written guarantee that they would give me a constant quantity of work equivalent to 25% of my usual throughput, and at a reasonable rate.

Working for a low rate, being forced to use their proprietary tool, and being forced to be a customer to their CAT tool business as part of the deal is not quite my idea of an interesting customer...


Hi, Tomás: I agree with you. However, I am usually against to the use of online propietary tools as they offer me no guarantee neither on the of the final client rights, nor on my translation rights. And I am not used to give my work away for free, at least if I have not decided to do it this way...
For me, one motive more for saying NO to this kind of trade policies, not to calling them swindles.

[Editado a las 2010-03-06 21:24 GMT]


 

tazdog (X)
Spain
Local time: 17:32
Spanish to English
+ ...
I wouldn't pay Mar 7, 2010

David Russi wrote:

I worked for Liox for many years, this tool was one reason I dropped them (yes, I dropped them, even though they were 40% of my income at the time), because besides the endless demands on time, and the constant downward pressure on rates, they insisted on switching to this tool which we affectionately called logocaca (after having forced hundreds of translators to buy Trados, over the years, I might add).

The tool may have improved, but I suspect you will still not be able to work when their server goes down or if you have no internet connection... it was always slow as molasses... unless that's changed, you have no control whatsoever and will have to depend on them to not screw up a setup... you will give up your work immediately to a mass TM, and I understand that there are sound copyrights arguments against wanting to do this... as I remember, the tool allows distributing the same files to several people, so whoever gets there first gets the words, and strings in the same paragraph can conceivably be translated by different people.

Pay for using this? Not in a bad dream...

[Edited at 2010-03-05 16:02 GMT]


My own experience with Logoport is similar to David's. I also stopped working for Lionbridge several years ago, not so much because of Logoport (although I hated it), but because of the ridiculous Service Level Agreement they wanted me to sign. However, if I were still working for them, this latest development would definitely make me decide to quit.


 

Hammersley  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:32
English to Spanish
Personal opinion on Translation Workspace Mar 8, 2010

Hello my dearest colleagues,

I still have a lot left to read on this thread, so I'm probably repeating one or more ideas, please forgive me.
I've just wrote on GeoWorkz site and I'm expecting a sensible answer. The main idea I tried to express was this:

Let’s imagine you are an office supplies manufacturer. You have developed a line of very good products and you tell to all your employees that the Company is going to use only their own supplies for all paperwork, but the employees will have to pay for the paper, the pens, the ink, the markers they use, etc. You are actually forcing your employees to buy your products in order to keep working in the Company, it doesn’t matter whether they are hired people or freelancers. Wouldn’t this be considered some form of monopoly? Please correct me if I’m wrong.


 

Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 17:32
French to German
+ ...
I do not know the right word for this.... Mar 8, 2010

Hammersley wrote:
Let’s imagine you are an office supplies manufacturer. You have developed a line of very good products and you tell to all your employees that the Company is going to use only their own supplies for all paperwork, but the employees will have to pay for the paper, the pens, the ink, the markers they use, etc. You are actually forcing your employees to buy your products in order to keep working in the Company, it doesn’t matter whether they are hired people or freelancers. Wouldn’t this be considered some form of monopoly? Please correct me if I’m wrong.



but and AFAIK, there are at least 2 other LSP's acting in such a way ("Want to work for us? Then use our products!"), namely SDL Trados and the STAR Group, to which I must add, for the sake of fairness, that STAR will grant you a Transit license at no charge if you work for them.
Other than that, and a bit off-topic here, I cannot imagine of any barrier which would prevent companies from making money wherever they can ("Leave no stone unturned!" or even "Make stones bleed!"). That is how it goes - even translators' associations now create distinct legal persons entitled to do benefits. Could we have imagined that five or ten years ago?

PS: the emphasis on brands has always been there. As an example, you could not deliver goods to automotive plants without your truck being of the same brand as the manufacturer's one, else you would have to wait for a truck of the plant to take over your trailer. I guess this is still the case.

[Edited at 2010-03-08 07:20 GMT]


 

David Singer
Local time: 16:32
Swedish to English
Lionbridge? No thanks Mar 8, 2010

I remember when a year ago they asked for a 3% discount (!) and then changed payment terms from 30 to 60 to 90 days in a few months "because of the recession". Uninspiring glimpse into their future. Their problem, not mine. I agree that small to medium agencies with direct customers are the better option.

[Edited at 2010-03-08 07:09 GMT]


 

Cruz Losada
Spain
Local time: 17:32
English to Spanish
Translation tools and translation companies Mar 8, 2010

Laurent KRAULAND wrote:

but and AFAIK, there are at least 2 other LSP's acting in such a way ("Want to work for us? Then use our products!"), namely SDL Trados and the STAR Group, to which I must add, for the sake of fairness, that STAR will grant you a Transit license at no charge if you work for them.


The case with SDL Trados is different. In relation to the Translation tool-translation company relationship there are two main differences:
1-Trados was developed as an independent translation tool which was and is still extensively used by translation companies, many of those medium to small size companies we all like to work for, use Trados as their CAT tool of choice. I am not that familiar with the background for the STAR group. Trados was bought by SDL after the tool had been around for a good bunch of years and had an independent life of its own, and (obviously) SDL uses now Trados as their translation tool, you could have been working for Trados for years (and still work with it) and never have worked with SDL. Logoport was created as an internal Lionbridge translation tool (nobody has work with Logoport unless you have worked for Lionbridge, in fact as we can see here some people work with Lionbridge until they had to start working with Logoport); then they develop other similar tools for all the work they do (or more likely we mostly do for them). For example the reviews used to be done in Excel templates with some macros, only very very recently they have come up with an online tool in a format which is exactly as the previous Excel template (no advantages about the new system) but with the inconveniences attached to work online (as well as other problems exclusive to this online forms).
2- With Trados you buy it, you get it in your machine(s) and you do whatever you please with it, you have control of the tool, they only control the licensing to use the tool you bought, you could have bought a version ten years ago and didn´t need to buy an update, and you are still using that version to work.

As it has been pointed out here in some posts, it is a question of control of your working environment, even if it´s just nearly only symbolic we are freelancers.
I find this move by Lionbridge bleeding offensive: make profit out of some of the people who do your work and present the whole thing with a paternalistic approach of we do this for you, you have asked us, it's just difficult on the liver (at least on mine). This last summer they did some surreal survey among their vendors; I wasn´t sure if they were planning to send us e-cakes and e-flowers for our birthdays or the plan behind was to sell us all to some alien dark force. It´s like been treated like a kid: what are your favourite Websites?, do you like to work online?. Now here it is, don´t you like it?, it´s a nice new system to work and you are going to love it. All this cover with and extensive number of layers of waffling and bulls___t


 

David Russi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:32
English to Spanish
+ ...
@ Cindy Mar 8, 2010

Cindy Chadd wrote:
My own experience with Logoport is similar to David's. I also stopped working for Lionbridge several years ago, not so much because of Logoport (although I hated it), but because of the ridiculous Service Level Agreement they wanted me to sign. However, if I were still working for them, this latest development would definitely make me decide to quit.


So glad to hear this, the SLA was the last straw for me too, though they insisted it was "standard", could not be amended, and no one but me had "complained"... of course!


 

John Rawlins  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:32
Spanish to English
+ ...
Aimed at the hobbyist Mar 8, 2010

I do not feel that Lionbridge is aiming its Logoport Translation Workplace at professional translators. I believe the company has identified a type of part-time 'hobbyist' or 'student' translator who is prepared to do occasional translations for less than five eurocents a word. For this type of translator, the Logoport offer ('no money invested - not much earned') may begin to make sense.

 

Claudio Porcellana (X)  Identity Verified
Italy
Translation Workspace Mar 8, 2010

Hi

the Lion Circus has still zero comments ...
may be why they only received negative ones?
;-D

anyway, here are the fabulous advantages of the Cloud 9 system

* Finally, a robust tool that sets translators free from their PCs and laptops, and from the fear of losing their work due to a crash.
* No more panic attacks when the power goes off.
* Bye-bye to time-consuming backups and file downloads.
* There is no need to fill up the memory of their machines with heavy TMs and other language assets, and invest in external hard drives to keep up with the growth of their data.
* Everything will be there, in the cloud, allowing them to share, collaborate and get into the crowd.

I hope this business model will fail, otherwise I've my B plan ready
;-D

Claudio

[Modificato alle 2010-03-08 15:42 GMT]


 

Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:32
German to Spanish
+ ...
Translation Workspace / Lionbridge Mar 8, 2010

Claudio Porcellana wrote:

Hi

the Lion Circus has still zero comments ...
may be why they only received negative ones?
;-D

anyway, here are the fabulous advantages of the Cloud 9 system

* Finally, a robust tool that sets translators free from their PCs and laptops, and from the fear of losing their work due to a crash.
* No more panic attacks when the power goes off.
* Bye-bye to time-consuming backups and file downloads.
* There is no need to fill up the memory of their machines with heavy TMs and other language assets, and invest in external hard drives to keep up with the growth of their data.
* Everything will be there, in the cloud, allowing them to share, collaborate and get into the crowd.

I hope this business model will fail, otherwise I've my B plan ready
;-D

Claudio

[Modificato alle 2010-03-08 15:42 GMT]


Can you share your plan B wit us... or is it classified as TOP SECRET?
Maybe, I should call James Bond or Dr. No to get some helpicon_biggrin.gif


 

Claudio Porcellana (X)  Identity Verified
Italy
B plan Mar 8, 2010

Maybe, I should call James Bond ?

if only it were true!
I'm a 007 fan and I have all his moviesicon_wink.gif

joking apart, I'm planning and studying to become a pruning expert

firstly, I'll use these skills to improve my vegetable garden and orchard, but I hope within few years to use them as a new job

just before MTs, cloud computing and other machines will have sent translators and interpreters in the dustbin ...
;-D

Claudio

[Modificato alle 2010-03-08 23:38 GMT]


 

Jaroslaw Michalak  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:32
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Bad news Mar 9, 2010

Claudio Porcellana wrote:

joking apart, I'm planning and studying to become a pruning expert

firstly, I'll use these skills to improve my vegetable garden and orchard, but I hope within few years to use them as a new job

just before MTs, cloud computing and other machines will have sent translators and interpreters in the dustbin ...
;-D



Oh, my, do I have some bad news for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_po1UiAS_g


 

Claudio Porcellana (X)  Identity Verified
Italy
Bad news Mar 9, 2010

hàhàhà
I think that you don't know very well the mountain farmers or valley dwellers mind-set ...
if you bring a hardware like that in their vineyards, at the very least they shot it in the wheel!
LOL

Claudio


 

superuser (X)
Local time: 17:32
English to Italian
half an hour per month is a problem? Mar 10, 2010

I would stick to the topic and leave the LionX SLA/rates/policies out by now.

I was shocked as most of you when I heard about TW, I was ready to quit my collaboration with LionX (which is the 95% of my income) but I wanted to understand more before killing myself. Reading the posts in this thread makes me think that most of you didn't follow the webinar.

First, beside the monthly 10 € subscription (which is for most of us about half an hour of work), LionX doesn't charge you for the volumes they send to translators, they only charge for volumes you work out for other agencies or for your own jobs. This is quite easy, I simply won't use TW for my own jobs and keep on using something like Trados which is far better in any case.

The concept of paying for working is not so different from buying Trados which is owned by SDL, the only difference is that Trados is far more expensive then TW.

Useless to say, this is a strategic action by LionX aimed to kill competitors who (as SDL does) sell proprietary tools. If TW works, Trados sellings will drop.

A couple of years ago I was about to start a collaboration with SDL, who asked me to buy Trados (I used an older version, they wanted me to buy the latest one)...guess what? I said No thanks for the same reason some of you are talking about in this thread. The only difference is that 108 € per year is not exactly the same as about 700 €, which is the current price for Trados...given that nobody of us use cracked versions of it.

My only concern in the future is to see how much the subscription costs will raise year by year, that could be a pin in the ass in perfect LionX style. Anyway I have a B plan too...

Bye


[Edited at 2010-03-10 17:49 GMT]

[Edited at 2010-03-10 20:12 GMT]


 

superuser (X)
Local time: 17:32
English to Italian
wine is changed Mar 10, 2010

Claudio Porcellana wrote:

hàhàhà
I think that you don't know very well the mountain farmers or valley dwellers mind-set ...
if you bring a hardware like that in their vineyards, at the very least they shot it in the wheel!
LOL

Claudio


but that stuff has a future in Napa Valleyicon_smile.gif


 
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