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Translation Workspace / Lionbridge CAT tool
Thread poster: sasp

Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:18
English to Polish
+ ...
note May 29, 2010

Peer wrote:

Each time a change like this happens, I get the impression that somebody probably "earned" a bonus by pulling the blanket a bit more to their side using these tricks. And trying to discuss these things, there never is an answer or any kind of open discussion. Never (so far at least). Just kind of hollow stares, shoulder shruggung and "we can't do anything about it", "we don't know ourselves", like "we're just following orders". So we're left at the mercy of undisclosed, anonymous procedures. Quite a bad thing, as far as I am concerned.


This is how big corporations work, all too often. I do believe the PM when she says there's nothing she can do about this or that procedure. She is following orders. I've worked for a big corporation (not a TA), and by far not the worst one, for 5 years. And I've had to downright apologize to clients and especially contractors for running them through stupid procedures that somebody "in the region" had come up with - somebody with a lot of power and little knowledge of my work.


 

Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 17:18
French to German
+ ...
Same here... May 29, 2010

Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:

This is how big corporations work, all too often. I do believe the PM when she says there's nothing she can do about this or that procedure. She is following orders. I've worked for a big corporation (not a TA), and by far not the worst one, for 5 years. And I've had to downright apologize to clients and especially contractors for running them through stupid procedures that somebody "in the region" had come up with - somebody with a lot of power and little knowledge of my work.


Indeed: there is nothing to be done against the corporatese way of thinking that "More procedures = better work".


 

kchansen
Local time: 17:18
English to Danish
Procedures... May 29, 2010

Too many procedures and too little focus on translation was one reason I decided to leave corporate life behind. As a translator who didn't want to "advance" to project manager, I didn't feel welcome in a big translation agency. The regional management encouraged local offices to hire project managers but not translators. The "idea" was that a project manager can work on several projects at the same time, while a translator can only work on one.icon_rolleyes.gif

(Of course they still had to pay freelancers, instead of in-house translators, to do the translations. But somehow this fact eluded management.)


 

TTilch  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:18
English to German
+ ...
I have decided not to work on Logoport projects any more... Jun 24, 2010

... because:

1) If the client wants me to work with his own tool (developed by himself), I expect him to provide it to me free of charge.
Otherwise I want to pay only once for the tool, be able to use it as much and as often as I would like to, without varying cost (like is the case here, where I have to pay more for the subscription the more words I want to translate with it of my own projects) - even an expensive CAT tool is cheaper in the long run if I want to be able to translate at least 55,000 words per month with it.

2) I do not think it a good idea to host my TMs on my competitor's servers (which, I think, is the case with Logoport - correct me if I'm wrong). So I would definitely only use it for their projects, but not for my own.

3) It just seems to me that Lionbridge is in need of funds (same as everybody) - thus this new idea. Fine with me, but then I will have to raise my rate per word, too, to compensate for the higher cost - which I will definitely do if I should decide to work with it again.

4) There are a couple of things other CAT tools handle better, especially tagged formats, thus at the moment Logoport will not become my first tool of choice.

Hope this helps others to come to a decision regarding this new development.

Best regards,

Tanja


 

Adam Łobatiuk  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:18
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
Agree with Tanja Jun 24, 2010

Except this point:


3) It just seems to me that Lionbridge is in need of funds (same as everybody) - thus this new idea. Fine with me, but then I will have to raise my rate per word, too, to compensate for the higher cost - which I will definitely do if I should decide to work with it again.


Apparently, if you decided to work with Translation Workspace for Lionbridge only, the lowest subscription would do, as you wouldn't pay for words translated for them. So that would be just EUR 10 per month, if I remember correctly. Nevertheless, the other points you made are enough to stay away from TW.


 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 17:18
English to Czech
+ ...
As regards point 3 Jun 24, 2010

Adam Łobatiuk wrote:

Except this point:


3) It just seems to me that Lionbridge is in need of funds (same as everybody) - thus this new idea. Fine with me, but then I will have to raise my rate per word, too, to compensate for the higher cost - which I will definitely do if I should decide to work with it again.


Apparently, if you decided to work with Translation Workspace for Lionbridge only, the lowest subscription would do, as you wouldn't pay for words translated for them. So that would be just EUR 10 per month, if I remember correctly. Nevertheless, the other points you made are enough to stay away from TW.


Even € 10 per month is a reason good enough to stay away from TW. Where do employees pay to their employers to work for them?


 

Adam Łobatiuk  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:18
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
Sure Jun 24, 2010


Even € 10 per month is a reason good enough to stay away from TW. Where do employees pay to their employers to work for them?


I agree, again, except we are not their employees. What I meant was that neither will Lionbridge earn a lot from such €10 vendors, nor will they lose a lot. If you translated, say, 50K words for them, it would be impractical to claim a rise by €0.0002 per word.


 

TTilch  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:18
English to German
+ ...
€10 minimum subscription fee Jun 25, 2010

Adam Łobatiuk wrote:


Even € 10 per month is a reason good enough to stay away from TW. Where do employees pay to their employers to work for them?


I agree, again, except we are not their employees. What I meant was that neither will Lionbridge earn a lot from such €10 vendors, nor will they lose a lot. If you translated, say, 50K words for them, it would be impractical to claim a rise by €0.0002 per word.


A rise per word of €0.0002 may not be possible (so make it €0.01 icon_smile.gif ), but at least a guarantee for a minimum order each month would be advisable, because you would also have to pay the €10 minimum subscription fee if you do not do any project for them at all.


 

kchansen
Local time: 17:18
English to Danish
An issue with Item 3 Jun 25, 2010

I agree with what TTilch says above, except ...

TTilch wrote:

3) It just seems to me that Lionbridge is in need of funds (same as everybody) - thus this new idea. Fine with me, but then I will have to raise my rate per word, too, to compensate for the higher cost - which I will definitely do if I should decide to work with it again.


I don't think Lionbridge has introduced Translation Workspace as payment software in order to raise quick money. It takes too long to develop new software, even if they began with Logoport as a basis, and to introduce it to the market, and there is the risk that the customers (that is, us) won't buy it. For Lionbridge, this risk also means getting into trouble with their suppliers. Translation Workspace was first announced last summer and must have been in the works for some time before then. Introducing new software is not fit as a "quick cash scheme".

I rather think that Lionbridge has planned for some time to turn Logoport into payment software, perhaps as far back as since they introduced the tool in 2005.

That being said, I agree with Tanja's other points, and with her conclusion that it is about time we said NO to Lionbridge. The reason they expect their freelancers to accept this newest initiative is that the freelancers have accepted everything else they threw at us - longer payment terms, lower prices, etc. They will keep coming up with new "smart" ideas as long as we keep accepting them.

If enough freelancers accept having to pay for Translation Workspace, it is a matter of 3, 6 or maybe 12 months before Lionbridge will once more be "delighted" to share some news with us. Brace yourselves; for the news will be a lot more "delightful" to Lionbridge than to us.

[Edited at 2010-06-25 21:54 GMT]


 

Alaa Zeineldine  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 18:18
Member (2002)
English to Arabic
+ ...
Signed Jun 28, 2010

Maruja Limon wrote:

I don’t know if any of you have seen this. I was sent the link bellow by a reliable source on Friday. You might want to read it (please read it!!) and if you consider signing it, do so. I think it is a good approach and at least it is an attempt to put forward a joined totally reasonable response.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFlqU1hFYXJuOGI4TzM0MmlCcWNUS1E6MQ


It is a good approach, notwithstanding reduced rates. Please keep us posted of results.


 

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:18
Member (2004)
English to Italian
maybe... Jun 29, 2010

kchansen wrote:


That being said, I agree with Tanja's other points, and with her conclusion that it is about time we said NO to Lionbridge. The reason they expect their freelancers to accept this newest initiative is that the freelancers have accepted everything else they threw at us - longer payment terms, lower prices, etc. They will keep coming up with new "smart" ideas as long as we keep accepting them.


and such freelancers will be replaced by more willing freelancers... it's just how the market works, unfortunately. The only thing which could scare Lionbridge would be losing their clients because of some issues... maybe quality? But do Lionbridge really care about quality? Let's face it, they will always find somebody to do their dirty work, so writing letters is just a waste of time in terms of actual results (like the letter to Proz of some time ago... what's changed? Nothing), although it's good to expose such behaviours. The only solution for these freelancers is to find better paying clients and leave Lionbridge and its silly software alone. Which part of freelance these people don't understand?


 

Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:18
English to Polish
+ ...
today's e-mail Oct 29, 2010

Anyone got the same e-mail I just got from Liox? I'm still in their database and the message really cracked me up.

 

Andrei Shmatkov  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 08:18
English to Russian
+ ...
I did Oct 29, 2010

Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:

Anyone got the same e-mail I just got from Liox? I'm still in their database and the message really cracked me up.


They are asking for a 5% discount (again!!!), quoting The Economist about the industrial production decrease by 0.2% in Septembericon_smile.gif


 

Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 17:18
French to German
+ ...
Only thing I can say... Oct 29, 2010

Andrei Shmatkov wrote:

Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:

Anyone got the same e-mail I just got from Liox? I'm still in their database and the message really cracked me up.


They are asking for a 5% discount (again!!!), quoting The Economist about the industrial production decrease by 0.2% in Septembericon_smile.gif


about this "reason" for this discount: All my eye and Betty Martin...


 

Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:18
German to Spanish
+ ...
Translation Workspace / Lionbridge CAT tool Oct 29, 2010

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

...but being asked to pay for the use of a proprietary tool is not OK.

It is perfectly OK if this company asks you to use their tool. It is legitimate as it helps them work more efficiently and deliver a better service to their customers. However, I would only pay for the use of the tool is there was a written guarantee that they would give me a constant quantity of work equivalent to 25% of my usual throughput, and at a reasonable rate.

Working for a low rate, being forced to use their proprietary tool, and being forced to be a customer to their CAT tool business as part of the deal is not quite my idea of an interesting customer...



I am sorry Tomás, but this time I can not agree with you. It is true that agencies are entitled to require the use of a specific CAT tool. But not when they use (illegally) your intellectual work (storing it in their translation memory servers and reusing it at their convenience) without your consent, get you paid to do the job or not.

The fact that you buy a book at a bookstore, does not give you any copyrights of the same, isn't it? To take possession of your intellectual property without your consent is purely and simply a theft, it is named xxx-cloud or whatever... And to have to pay for your own work seems to me that borders on criminality.






[Edited at 2010-10-29 18:49 GMT]


 
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