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Outsourcing: I don't know whether to laugh or cry!
Thread poster: Stéphanie Denton
Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:47
French to English
+ ...
Apr 7, 2011

Good evening/morning/afternoon...to you all

Hope that you are well.

I'm sat at my computer, after having received an e-mail, and I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Here is how the land lies at my end. I am on a mac. My laptop (PC which had Trados on it) has died a slow and painful death. As such, I cannot use Trados. Along came a project, and the client is specifically requesting Trados. Blind panic. What do I do? I decide to outsource said project. Obviously, I get a lot of quotes, despite it being a low budget (I can't believe what some people are willing to work for, nor that they actually offer these quotes themselves!). A certain person caught my eye, as he stated that he was a highly experienced Trados user. Bingo, I thought! His inital e-mail was in perfect English, so I pinged him an e-mail saying that I couldn't actually open the files due to being on a mac, so I couldn't give him a definite word count. Various e-mails to and fro, and I send him the file, but ask him to bear with me as I needed to get specifications (I also had a translator friend opening the file with her computer so that she could tell me what it was about). The client said he was happy for me to outsource the work, providing that I was positive that the quality would be as good as my own. I got back to my "outsourcee" and asked him if he would mind just doing a short test of the first 10 segments (around 100 words). I receive a poorly written e-mail back saying yes, not a problem.

He sends me the test, alongside another poorly written e-mail. I read the test, and it's terrible. The TM and termbase provided clearly hadn't been used. I write a nice e-mail back saying "sorry, but it isn't quite up to scratch", but I'll bear you in mind for other language pairs. He sends me another poorly written e-mail back, obviously not happy, which I hadn't had chance to reply to as I've managed to start the project myself. My phone pings to alert a new e-mail and here is what I got:



Let me share this with you.

Last week i have got a job with a british lady it was a transcription
+ translation
the job starts at 6pm ,she were claiming it to be released on the
following day at 9 am. I have to download a mp3 file of 1 hour length.
Finally it results in 16 pages. Instead of 9 am i deliver the files at 12 pm
Instead of evaluating the job
She refuse to pay me : 250 € lost
. She raises ridiculous arguments like you

Internet nowadays is full of swindlers like you !

Last week i ve got a russian he started exactly like you...oooh do
this ooo do that no stop it oooh tell me this He sent me 12 emails
before starting the job (exactly like you)
We spent 4hours moving ahead , going back finally he make up his mind
The next day when i release the job he said : the text is not coloured
thus i dont pay : 150 $ lost

Last month i have an indian firm they fone me arguing their job were urgent

They sent to me nested text within a picture nexted within a pdf
file...Obviously i have to start with file processing in order to make
the file editable and rebuild all the graphic chart.This request 8
hours...I started at 4 pm and they were asking the translation the
following day at 9 am
Their reviewers were of a very low level....They started to loose time
(exactly like you yesterday with unapropriate question or unuseful
emails) then finally they refused to pay : 150 € lost


I want to share these examples with you ! Because you look like these people
Instead of teaching me you are merely a two beat swindler,like the others

As i have guess all these always starts with the same
trouble.Yesterday you were unable to mail me the file to be
translate.As you can see in the examples above
It s quite the same.....
I know how you are working .You were not courageous to say you wont pay me.
Oooh yes the customer.... where is he? I have use all the expressions
when needed
Nothing to blame except your cupidity
In such case i add you in my blacklist,may be sooner the translators
should hold a black list of swindlers translations agencies and share
it through internet and avoid working with them....
What i think is :

----you were unable to open the file(oooh my computer does not have
SDL Trados ! big lie from you !!!) thus you request someone to do it

-----As you already have my translations free from you to discuss with
the customer receive the money and refuse to pay me....

---Now you are free to raise false arguments,who will stop you ?

Shame on you,what a pity.....

you are just like the others a two beat swindler....

In such case i regret only my time you ve spoiled

I hope with that money you ll build skycrapers ! Lucky you !

what a mess...Shame on you !

you claim to know how to write english very well you are supposed to
run a translation agency
You should be ashamed that the source file you ve sent is of a very poor quality
and you did not even discover it....This show me where your management
level really is....
When you run a such business,you have to pay attention to the file you
send (you were not even sure about the file to be process,you ask me
to process 17 files !!! shame on you )
All these shows clearly where your management stand.
As you see i am talking about facts...
It s obvious( that apart from cupidity) in the field of translation
you still have to learn a lot....Believe me.


I don't mean to sound awful, but who on Earth is this idiot...? His English is dire. And he has the audacity to talk to me in that tone. I really don't know what to do. I know you're all going to say "IGNORE" but I really needed to get this off my chest. Hope you all understand.

Take care

Stéph

[Edited at 2011-04-08 21:18 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-04-08 21:19 GMT]


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JL01  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:47
English to French
+ ...
suspense, suspense Apr 7, 2011

I can't wait for the second installment of this series.

Direct link
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:47
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
You just hit a nerve, that's all Apr 7, 2011

Stéphanie Denton wrote:
I don't mean to sound awful, but who on Earth is this idiot...? His English is dire. And he has the audacity to talk to me in that tone. I really don't know what to do.


Do nothing. I feel sorry for the translator, as the events he describes that had happened to him all seem very realistic and not too uncommon. He has just had several bad experiences and he recognises a pattern in your behaviour, but patterns are just patterns, not proof. Take a look at the "Scams" forum here to see how quickly some translators jump to conclusions at the slightest indication that something might remotely be amiss. As for you -- do nothing. Nothing can be gained from continuing a conversation with this poor fellow.


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Stéphanie Denton  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:47
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Doing nothing Apr 7, 2011

Samuel Murray wrote:

Stéphanie Denton wrote:
I don't mean to sound awful, but who on Earth is this idiot...? His English is dire. And he has the audacity to talk to me in that tone. I really don't know what to do.


Do nothing. I feel sorry for the translator, as the events he describes that had happened to him all seem very realistic and not too uncommon. He has just had several bad experiences and he recognises a pattern in your behaviour, but patterns are just patterns, not proof. Take a look at the "Scams" forum here to see how quickly some translators jump to conclusions at the slightest indication that something might remotely be amiss. As for you -- do nothing. Nothing can be gained from continuing a conversation with this poor fellow.


I'm not going to do nothing, despite my fingers being drawn to the keyboard...

I understand his reasoning, however, the common link in all the examples he's given are him. Will take a look at the scams section. Thanks for that.

On a quick side note, I'm not receiving any notifications from ProZ (had submitted a support request), anyone else experiencing this?


Direct link
 
xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 07:47
Spanish to English
+ ...
Crying doesn't help. Apr 7, 2011

Stéphanie Denton wrote:

... I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.


Laughing is sometimes found to be unseemly.

If nothing else, this episode should help you decide what to do about this, from a few days ago: http://esl.proz.com/forum/being_independent/195835-stay_freelance_or_go_the_whole_hog_and_set_up_an_agency.html

MediaMatrix

PS

There a duff 'strong' tag in Stéphanie's original post, just after My phone pings to alert a new e-mail and here is what I got:, which prevents proper display of the rest on the story (at least in IE8).

Pending getting that fixed, the story can be read in full by clicking the "quote" button.

[Edited at 2011-04-07 23:36 GMT]


Direct link
 

Arianne Farah  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 05:47
Member (2008)
English to French
Also in Chrome Apr 8, 2011

mediamatrix wrote:

Pending getting that fixed, the story can be read in full by clicking the "quote" button.

[Edited at 2011-04-07 23:36 GMT]


Thanks - I was a little loss until I read the whole post

Just ignore it. My fav quote is "Their reviewers were of a very low level....They started to loose time
(exactly like you yesterday with unapropriate question or unuseful
emails)".

I'm guessing either the A or the B language for the translation was English... I can only imagine the translation, either way, saying "not up to scratch" was very polite of you.

Just add the guy to your ignore list and forget it. From the rest of the rant it seems that he considers every inquiry or test as a job and then doesn't understand when the project isn't assigned to him. He has no recourse; he can't post a BB since you didn't assign a job to him; he was simply a wannabe translator who failed a (very short, very appropriate) test.

If you answer you'll just add fuel to the fire. Let it go. Move on. Get a virtual windows environment on your mac or find another translator to outsource to


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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: User's request - http://www.proz.com/ticket/265676

inmb  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:47
English to Polish
+ ...
statistics Apr 8, 2011

[quote]Stéphanie Denton wrote:

Good evening/morning/afternoon...to you all

Hope that you are well.

I'm sat at my computer, after having received an e-mail, and I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Here is how the land lies at my end. I am on a mac. My laptop has died a slow and painful death. As such, I cannot use Trados. Along came a project, and the client is specifically requesting Trados. Blind panic. What do I do? I decide to outsource said project. Obviously, I get a lot of quotes, despite it being a low budget (I can't believe what some people are willing to work for, nor that they actually offer these quotes themselves!). A certain person caught my eye, as he stated that he was a highly experienced Trados user. Bingo, I thought! His inital e-mail was in perfect English, so I pinged him an e-mail saying that I couldn't actually open the files due to being on a mac, so I couldn't give him a definite word count. Various e-mails to and fro, and I send him the file, but ask him to bear with me as I needed to get specifications (I also had a translator friend opening the file with her computer so that she could tell me what it was about). The client said he was happy for me to outsource the work, providing that I was positive that the quality would be as good as my own. I got back to my "outsourcee" and asked him if he would mind just doing a short test of the first 10 segments (around 100 words). I receive a porly written e-mail back saying yes, not a problem.

He sends me the test, alongside another poorly written e-mail. I read the test, and it's terrible. The TM and termbase provided clearly hadn't been used. I write a nice e-mail back saying "sorry, but it isn't quite up to scratch", but I'll bear you in mind for other language pairs. He sends me another poorly written e-mail back, obviously not happy, which I hadn't had chance to reply to as I've managed to start the project myself. My phone pings to alert a new e-mail and here is what I got:


Direct link
 

Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 05:47
Chinese to English
+ ...
It’s not the browser Apr 8, 2011

mediamatrix wrote:

There a duff 'strong' tag in Stéphanie's original post, just after My phone pings to alert a new e-mail and here is what I got:, which prevents proper display of the rest on the story (at least in IE8).

Pending getting that fixed, the story can be read in full by clicking the "quote" button.


This is a bit OT, but…

the problem is not in the browser. If you do a View Source in any browser, you will find that it is ProZ’s forum system that stripped the end of the post. So no matter which browser you use the end part will be missing.


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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule
Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 11:47
German to Swedish
+ ...
Emulator Apr 8, 2011

You can install Trados on the Mac using the Parallels emulator.

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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 12:47
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
This would have failed in almost any case Apr 8, 2011

If you cannot open a file you simply should not take the assignment and in no case outsource the job. Disaster is assured.
It takes about an hour to buy a laptop from the next dealer, install SDL software and Office etc. No excuse.


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Celine Gras  Identity Verified

Local time: 11:47
English to French
+ ...
Many things you can do on a Mac Apr 8, 2011

Hi Stéphanie,

I am sorry, but you were not very professional on that one. I had the exact same problem this week, my PC crashed while I was working on a TagEditor project, so I had to use my Mac.

I did not have the time to revert to using SwordFish on my Mac, so I installed Trados on a virtual machine using Parallels (which I had already installed in case such problem happened), and I resumed working on my files.

I lost about 1,5 hours, between the time it took me to acknowledge that I could do nothing to restart my PC and the time it took me to I figure out how to set Trados on Parallels.

Besides, you could just have said no to your client, since you were not able to fulfill his requirement of using Trados, unless you had someone you knew and trusted to help!

Céline


[Bearbeitet am 2011-04-08 08:37 GMT]


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Stefan de Boeck  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 11:47
English to Dutch
+ ...
second instalment Apr 8, 2011

previously in this post

He sends me the test, alongside another poorly written e-mail. I read the test, and it's terrible. The TM and termbase provided clearly hadn't been used. I write a nice e-mail back saying "sorry, but it isn't quite up to scratch", but I'll bear you in mind for other language pairs. He sends me another poorly written e-mail back, obviously not happy, which I hadn't had chance to reply to as I've managed to start the project myself. My phone pings to alert a new e-mail and here is what I got:




Let me share this with you.

Last week i have got a job with a british lady it was a transcription
+ translation
the job starts at 6pm ,she were claiming it to be released on the
following day at 9 am. I have to download a mp3 file of 1 hour length.
Finally it results in 16 pages. Instead of 9 am i deliver the files at 12 pm
Instead of evaluating the job
She refuse to pay me : 250 € lost
She raises ridiculous arguments like you

Internet nowadays is full of swindlers like you !

Last week i ve got a russian he started exactly like you...oooh do
this ooo do that no stop it oooh tell me this He sent me 12 emails
before starting the job (exactly like you)
We spent 4hours moving ahead , going back finally he make up his mind
The next day when i release the job he said : the text is not coloured
thus i dont pay : 150 $ lost

Last month i have an indian firm they fone me arguing their job were urgent

They sent to me nested text within a picture nexted within a pdf
file...Obviously i have to start with file processing in order to make
the file editable and rebuild all the graphic chart.This request 8
hours...I started at 4 pm and they were asking the translation the
following day at 9 am
Their reviewers were of a very low level....They started to loose time
(exactly like you yesterday with unapropriate question or unuseful
emails) then finally they refused to pay : 150 € lost


I want to share these examples with you ! Because you look like these people
Instead of teaching me you are merely a two beat swindler,like the others

As i have guess all these always starts with the same
trouble.Yesterday you were unable to mail me the file to be
translate.As you can see in the examples above
It s quite the same.....
I know how you are working .You were not courageous to say you wont pay me.
Oooh yes the customer.... where is he? I have use all the expressions
when needed
Nothing to blame except your cupidity
In such case i add you in my blacklist,may be sooner the translators
should hold a black list of swindlers translations agencies and share
it through internet and avoid working with them....
What i think is :

----you were unable to open the file(oooh my computer does not have
SDL Trados ! big lie from you !!!) thus you request someone to do it

-----As you already have my translations free from you to discuss with
the customer receive the money and refuse to pay me....

---Now you are free to raise false arguments,who will stop you ?

Shame on you,what a pity.....

you are just like the others a two beat swindler....

In such case i regret only my time you ve spoiled

I hope with that money you ll build skycrapers ! Lucky you !

what a mess...Shame on you !

you claim to know how to write english very well you are supposed to
run a translation agency
You should be ashamed that the source file you ve sent is of a very poor quality
and you did not even discover it....This show me where your management
level really is....
When you run a such business,you have to pay attention to the file you
send (you were not even sure about the file to be process,you ask me
to process 17 files !!! shame on you )
All these shows clearly where your management stand.
As you see i am talking about facts...
It s obvious( that apart from cupidity) in the field of translation
you still have to learn a lot....Believe me.




I don't mean to sound awful, but who on Earth is this idiot...? His English is dire. And he has the audacity to talk to me in that tone. I really don't know what to do. I know you're all going to say "IGNORE" but I really needed to get this off my chest. Hope you all understand.

Take care

Stéph


Direct link
 
Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Quoted posting removed
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