Legal to use html to link from my site to others
Thread poster: Jessie Nelson

Jessie Nelson  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:49
French to English
Apr 30, 2011

Hello everyone,
I am building my website and want to list other sites for translators, one that I have found helpful.
Do I need the consent of the sites.
It is my first website, so I am not sure.
Regards,
Jessie


 

Mack Tillman (X)
Local time: 02:49
German to English
+ ...
Issues When you Design and Build Your Web Site Apr 30, 2011

Hello Jessie,

When in doubt, I would get written permission. Here is a link from the World Intellectual Property Organization that gives you a bit more information on what to consider when setting up a website:

http://www.wipo.int/sme/en/e_commerce/design_issues.htm

See especially paragraph seven.

Another good reason for getting w
... See more
Hello Jessie,

When in doubt, I would get written permission. Here is a link from the World Intellectual Property Organization that gives you a bit more information on what to consider when setting up a website:

http://www.wipo.int/sme/en/e_commerce/design_issues.htm

See especially paragraph seven.

Another good reason for getting written permission would be the possibility of establishing a business relationship. Also take a close look at the website's legal information, terms of use, copyright information, etc.

Hope it helps.

Regards,

Mack

[Bearbeitet am 2011-04-30 21:33 GMT]
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Michal Glowacki  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 02:49
Member (2010)
English to Polish
+ ...
Nope Apr 30, 2011

AFAIK, you don't need their consent. You do need consent when you want to re-use someone else's images, text and other property. But if you want to place a link on your website to someone else's - that should be fine, as long as it's clear that this is not your website.

What might be useful is link exchange - if you're placing a link to someone's website maybe they'd be willing to do the same. That way you can increase your online visibility and search engine rank.


 

Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 20:49
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
IANAL May 1, 2011

and I know some sites do claim to require permission, but linking to a site really is like putting a footnote in an essay, and it just makes no sense to disallow citing your work in footnotes. Linking is the essence of the web, and if we all need to get permission to link the web would cease to exist in no time.

Also, people go crazy to make their sites “SEO friendly”, but the whole point of SEO is to encourage others to link to their sites. I really find it incomprehen
... See more
and I know some sites do claim to require permission, but linking to a site really is like putting a footnote in an essay, and it just makes no sense to disallow citing your work in footnotes. Linking is the essence of the web, and if we all need to get permission to link the web would cease to exist in no time.

Also, people go crazy to make their sites “SEO friendly”, but the whole point of SEO is to encourage others to link to their sites. I really find it incomprehensible for some people to not want others to link to them.

[Edited at 2011-05-01 04:20 GMT]
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Mack Tillman (X)
Local time: 02:49
German to English
+ ...
Would you like to be associated with everyone in Web? May 1, 2011

Ambrose Li wrote:

Linking is the essence of the web, and if we all need to get permission to link the web would cease to exist in no time.


Do you sign contracts without reading the fine print?

I really find it incomprehensible for some people to not want others to link to them.

I surely would like to know who might be using my intellectual property or whether or not a website is linking to me that I don't want to be associated with i.e. Websites promoting machine translation and dumping prices or even certain political parties...

See also http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap3.html

Paragraph 94: "... Often, no permission is required to make a link to a site, either because the website owner has given an implied license to link by posting his material on the Web, or by characterizing such linking as fair use.

95. However, other linking practices are more problematic. "Deep-linking" connects a user directly to secondary material on another site, bypassing that site's home or front page, and may amount to an infringement of copyright in the secondary material. Similarly, an "embedded link" creates a reference to content from another website such that the secondary material appears to be content originating from the first site. Such links, also called "in-line" links, do not require a copy to be made of the linked material, but may violate the author's right to display or communicate their work to the public. [142]"

"Often, no ..." already implies that often is not always.

Or see: http://www.thearchantgoodschoolsshow.co.uk/terms-and-conditions

"The following systematic creation and/or use of links to this website require a separate licence:

1. utilising links to this website received as part of a paid-for media monitoring service; and/or
2. systematically forwarding links to this website within a business or outside a business for business purposes; and/or
3. copying or extracting data from this website by means of robots, spiders, crawlers or other automatic devices or by any manual process used to systematically extract or copy web content.
4. Any such use of this website is prohibited without an appropriate licence."

So you see, it's not just go ahead and link to another website, especially when these are running businesses."

I'd always check up first. The cost is minimal: drawing up a letter and faxing it to the website owner with the request for him to permit linking and reading the legal notices on the respective website.

@Ambrose

I really find it incomprehensible for some people to not want others to link to them.


I agree with you, but when it comes down to legal issues, there are a lot of people out there making money off of your mistakes because you didn't take the time and care about your own legal issues. One of these IMO is the linking issue. Just google a bit and see how many cases can be found on linking and deep linking issues.

@Jessie
You should also know whether you will just be placing a link to the homepage of the fellow translator or possibly be deep linking to one of the interesting web pages he's/she has created by bypassing the respective homepage.

Don't forget: You are running a business and that's when legal can get nasty.

And like I said in my first answer: Approaching the person and asking for permission can open up a business relationship or just show the person how much you appreciate his work and that it is worth being made available by further linking on other websites.

That's all for now.

Mack


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 02:49
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
No, you don't need permission May 1, 2011

Jessie Nelson wrote:
I am building my website and want to list other sites for translators, one that I have found helpful. Do I need the consent of the sites?


No, you don't need a site's consent to link to that site. However, this does not mean all types of linking is acceptable. The important thing is that visitors to your site must be under no doubt as to which content is yours and which content is the other site's, and what your relationship with that other site is. Furthermore, you should be careful about what you say about the other site, to respect their moral rights.

It sounds to me like you want to have a page that will consist of links to various sites, and that you want to mention the web sites of colleagues on it. In that case, no visitor would be confused about your relationship with those sites, because the page would clearly be a list of links to various sites. You can also link to ProZ.com or similar sites, so make it clear that the list is simply a list of potentially interesting or useful links.

Other posters in this thread mention deep linking and inline linking. Inline linking is similar to framing, i.e. you deliberately create the impression that the other site's content is part of your site's content. Deep linking relates to linking to content on the other site that you would normally not be able to reach as a user of that site by simply following normal links, and only by doing a search using that site's database search functionality. This is not really relevant for people who want to include ONE link to a site.



[Edited at 2011-05-01 13:24 GMT]


 

Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 20:49
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
framing is not linking May 1, 2011

xxxMack Tillman wrote:

95. However, other linking practices are more problematic. "Deep-linking" connects a user directly to secondary material on another site, bypassing that site's home or front page, and may amount to an infringement of copyright in the secondary material. Similarly, an "embedded link" creates a reference to content from another website such that the secondary material appears to be content originating from the first site. Such links, also called "in-line" links, do not require a copy to be made of the linked material, but may violate the author's right to display or communicate their work to the public. [142]"



(rant)

So it is now obvious why we are in such a mess with regard to linking: the lawyers simply don’t know what they are talking about. Framing is not linking. Period. By being confused themselves, they are now forcing their confused terminology on us, and made the problem unnecessarily much bigger.

This would be a perfect example where translators should have been used for an English-English translation. The terminology was completely wrong. No one knew. And it’s now too late.

And by the way I don’t agree with their stance towards “deep linking” either. If deep linking really is prohibited, ProZ would fall apart right away (since we can no longer quote dictionary entries, encyclopedia entries, and other references, especially obscure references that are so useful when you answer KudoZ questions), as would Wikipedia, blogs, and almost everything else that’s useful. I stand by my position that deep linking is, at least from a common sense point of view, really the online equivalent of making a footnote citation (complete with page numbers or maybe even line numbers — as opposed to references which only cite the name of a book). Prohibiting deep linking is equivalent to saying you need permission to cite a paper or an article in a magazine—This is misguided and actively harmful thinking (and if the WTO really thinks like this the world does not have a future) and if this spills over to other areas academic integrity, among many other things, is doomed.

It is regrettable that we have gotten to this point. Very sad.

If plagiarism can become a problem what do you think the reason is? Quite possibly: being told/trained to think that deep linking (i.e., giving accurate footnotes) is wrong. If anyone can even entertain the idea that simple linking (i.e., citing references) might even remotely be wrong then no wonder plagiarism is a problem.

(/rant)

[Edited at 2011-05-01 23:14 GMT]


 

Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 20:49
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
do you control what people speak? May 1, 2011

xxxMack Tillman wrote:

I surely would like to know who might be using my intellectual property or whether or not a website is linking to me that I don't want to be associated with i.e. Websites promoting machine translation and dumping prices or even certain political parties...


Linking really is not “using” your material. It’s more like “talking about” you. It’s just that when things are online, it’s helpful to tell people (using an automatic means) where that source material is.

Can you control what people say? I’d surely not want to live in a world where talking about someone is illegal. I thought revolutions happened for a reason.

[Edited at 2011-05-01 23:17 GMT]


 

Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:49
French to English
+ ...
Doubt it... May 2, 2011

Jessie Nelson wrote:
Hello everyone,
I am building my website and want to list other sites for translators, one that I have found helpful.
Do I need the consent of the sites.
It is my first website, so I am not sure.
Regards,
Jessie


I think it would be pretty difficult to convince a judge with half an ounce of brain that somebody needed permission to link to a web site. The "hyper" bit of "HTML" effectively means "clickable link embedded in text".

Or in other words, the very raison d'être of the protocol underlying most of the web is specifically to allow linking from one page to another. It's hard to see how one could then decide to put something on the web but complain when people link to it...


 

Romeo Mlinar  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 01:49
English to Serbian
+ ...
Open and free web May 3, 2011

No, you do not need a permission to use a simple link. Imagine the web if that would be the case - heaven forbid!

 

Alex Lago  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 02:49
Member (2009)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Linking is not content use May 3, 2011

Placing a mere link to another web page in not the same as using the web pages content, if all you are doing is placing a link to a web page then you don't need anyone's permission, you only need it to use their content within your website. As by what you say you are not using their content, you are merely pointing the way to their web page you don't require any permission at all.

 

Jessie Nelson  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:49
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks to all who helped. May 6, 2011

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to thank everyone for their reply.
I have written to the main site I wanted to link to but received no reply.
I will wait a bit longer and then proceed.
Jessie


 


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