My quote was accepted; job poster won't identify themselves?!
Thread poster: Laurie Price

Laurie Price  Identity Verified
Mexico
Spanish to English
+ ...
Aug 1, 2011

I'm not sure where to post this, actually.

I bid on an editing job, stated my rates in my quote, edited/corrected a very short sample text given with the job post & my quote was accepted.
I then wrote an email requesting the usual information (land address, company name, ID #, etc.) and a PO and asked if they would be able to comply with my 30-day payment terms from receipt of my invoice.

Now I get an email minimizing the whole process -- it gets a bit weird here ... and I quote,

"The process is pretty easy: I send the text to be proofread and the due date, if the selected proofreader have not the time to do on time, he will inform me so I can give to another one, otherwise the selected proofreader can do the task and deliver. At the end of the month you will prepare an invoice related to all the tasks done in the past month and we pay.
Now two questions:
1) Which is your rate for proofreading? (we prefer based on words for cost control)
2) Are you available to do a test before beginning the real job? It is important for us to check the accuracy and the level of English (I will not check it but my boss) If yes I will send you a little text to be proofreaded."

Still no information about who they are, where they are, and ... Ooops, I thought my quote was accepted based on my wonderful editing sample and their agreement with my rates ...

So now my question is ...

Is there a good reason why ProZ.com accepts jobposts from unidentified outsourcers -- visitors -- no identifying marks, nothing -- ? Cuz if there is, I'd like to hear it.

How can I even research who this company is or where they really are? The job post says "US" -- that's a BIG country ... & the contact's name and style of English are clear indicators of eastern European background ... & for all I know, the whole thing's legit!

But for all I know ... (& that's what I don't want to know.)

Can anyone answer my question?


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:24
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Sounds distinctly dodgy to me Aug 1, 2011

Laurie Price wrote:
Is there a good reason why ProZ.com accepts jobposts from unidentified outsourcers -- visitors -- no identifying marks, nothing -- ? Cuz if there is, I'd like to hear it.


It might be worth submitting a support request - perhaps staff have a better idea of who is posting this job.

Was it marked "potential job" or a text to be proofread by a certain date?

Even if you find out who they are, it doesn't sound as though any partnership would be happy. You've done a (small) test, you've stated your rates - and they want you to re-do both? They clearly don't value your time. If you do decide to go ahead, I bet you'll find they are only willing to accept a tiny percentage of your rate, and they'll pay for "proofreading" and send you "re-translating" jobs.

Whatever, I would personally avoid them at all costs.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Purpose of sample text, and other answers Aug 1, 2011

Laurie Price wrote:
I bid on an editing job, stated my rates in my quote, **edited/corrected a very short sample text given** with the job post & my quote was accepted.


If I understand correctly, the sample text that a job poster can give is quite limited in length, and the purpose of the sample is not to act as a test but to give you a glimpse of the material.

Some translators think that the sample is meant as a small test, and when I posted jobs in the past, some translators actually translated the sample text, thinking that it was a test translation, when in fact it was just a preview of what the job's text was all about.

The process is pretty easy: I send the text to be proofread and the due date, if the selected proofreader have not the time to do on time, he will inform me so I can give to another one, otherwise the selected proofreader can do the task and deliver. At the end of the month you will prepare an invoice related to all the tasks done in the past month and we pay.


I suppose you are the "selected proofreader" here (among several) and what the client is basically asking is that if he sends you a job and you can't do it, you should please inform him so that he can pass the job to the next person on his list.

Now two questions:
1) Which is your rate for proofreading? (we prefer based on words for cost control)
2) Are you available to do a test before beginning the real job?


Did your quote include per-word rates for proofreading? If not (or even if so), write back and tell the client what your proofreading rate is. And tell him that you're willing to do a test (and tell him the maximum length of the test that you're willing to do).

Still no information about who they are, where they are...


It may be that they think you already know (based on a faulty assumption on their part about how much information is passed on through the ProZ.com jobs system). If you want information, just ask. If you desperately want information, be clear (and polite) and insist on getting it.



[Edited at 2011-08-01 20:45 GMT]


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Laurie Price  Identity Verified
Mexico
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Sheila -- done -- Aug 1, 2011

Rather than waste my time replying to them I decided to post this here --

The moment I read the proofreading process description ... I rolled my eyes and dismissed the entire scenario, but wanted to post it publicly and get feedback, not realizing I could submit a support request -- in the moment, I looked at the drop down menus & just didn't see what I was looking for.

But I think it's important to inform people about it -- I waited from early yesterday morning until now (more or less) to hear back from them, thinking I'd have 'new' work til mid-August, aside from my regular clients.


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Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:24
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
A few questions Aug 1, 2011

Hi Laurie,

I'm wondering about a few things.

1. Was the sample you found in the job posting accompanied by the following "Sample text: Translating this text is NOT required"? If so, the outsourcer did not intend to evaluate your editing skills on the basis of that sample.

2. Is there a Blue Board link in the job posting? If so, all the company contact information, including, most likely, the link to their Website, will appear in the the Blue Board record.

3. And this is a supposition: if you received an 'accepted' notification, perhaps the company was using that function to contact you rather than through your profile. Not really the right way to follow up, but that link would be a lot more direct and easier to use than a profile message.


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:24
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
test vs sample Aug 1, 2011

Samuel Murray wrote:
If I understand correctly, the sample text that a job poster can give is quite limited in length, and the purpose of the sample is not to act as a test but to give you a glimpse of the material.

Some translators think that the sample is meant as a small test, and when I posted jobs in the past, some translators actually translated the sample text, thinking that it was a test translation, when in fact it was just a preview of what the job's text was all about.


I've never posted a job, so I don't know what is presented to the poster, but it is (normally) quite clear that it is either (a) a sample for info, or (b) a test to be translated. If it's to be translated (or proofread, in this case), then you will either be presented with a field for this purpose or the poster will ask you to include it in the quote.

I agree that there could be confusion in some cases - perhaps there was some in this instance. I'm always ready to give people the benefit of the doubt but it doesn't sound as though things have started well here.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
What is presented to the jobs poster Aug 1, 2011

Sheila Wilson wrote:
I've never posted a job, so I don't know what is presented to the poster...


Have a look for yourself:
http://www.proz.com/post-translation-job/

The sample text is limited to 500 characters (about 100 words in English), and although there is an option to state that the sample text is a "short test", I don't think translators should assume that it is *the* test (if there is a test).

After all, a good way to test candidates is to give them all the same test (a test that has been tested to test candidates well). The sample in the job post is a sample of the actual job, and if the test is standardised, it will not be part of the current job's text.

To sum up: we don't know if the job post here said "this is a test", but even if it did, there may well be another longer test that will test the candidate's abilities better.


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Laurie Price  Identity Verified
Mexico
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@ Yolanda: please feel free to pull this post Aug 1, 2011

There was NO information, no Blue Board link, no company name, nothing -- & indeed, I probably shouldn't have even bothered to bid, but I did.

I think Samuel misunderstood my post ("If you want information, just ask." -- that's what I did). I conducted myself firmly & professionally -- asking for their information, as previously stated, as well as a PO, since one would want to know who they're going to do business with, no?

As Sheila so aptly put it: " it doesn't sound as though things have started well here."

My point was that the woman who answered my email completely avoided answering my questions and merely minimized the process as if I should just sit back & let them take care of everything. Again, who they are ... is anyone's guess. But I don't work that way and I don't think anyone else who's a freelancer can, period.

In the meantime, I've submitted a support ticket, so this post may be pulled and it's just as well -- too much time & energy wasted already, and that's also part of what I was pointing out.


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:24
French to English
One last attempt? Aug 1, 2011

Laurie Price wrote:

I bid on an editing job, stated my rates in my quote, (...)
Now two questions:
1) Which is your rate for proofreading?
2) Are you available to do a test


Depending how much I wanted the work, I might reply to these 2 questions, but not without pointing out politely but clearly that you'd already given your rates and done what you thought was the test. Maybe your contact is going through the procedure for unsolicited enquiries without thinking, or something...

As well (or possibly instead, if I wasn't bothered about the outcome) I'd ask one more time for proper contact details - names, addresses, etc. and if they're not forthcoming, I'd drop it.

And quite honestly, the whole process is supposed to be about building trust and confidence on both sides and if you have doubts, trust your intuition and walk away. Metaphorically, like


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Laura Bissio CT  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 06:24
Member (2008)
English to Spanish
+ ...
"accepted" can be confusing... Aug 2, 2011

Hello,
I had a similar experience some time ago: I received an e-mail telling me that my quote had been accepted, so I replied this e-mail and thanked the poster for selecting me. Later I received another e-mail explaining that this "accepted" meant "pre-selected", among many others, and that the job was finally given to someone else. So, this "acceptance" you received may just be a pre-selection, and therefore you are being asked to complete another test.
I think that the answer you received is addressed to a group, not just to you, this may be the reason why you are asked to tell them the rate again; other pre-selected candidates may not have stated their rates.
On the other hand, was there no information in the box "About the outsourcer:" of the job post? No name or URL you can google?

Good luck!

Laura


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Laurie Price  Identity Verified
Mexico
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks to all who responded ... Aug 2, 2011

This is a moot point now --

The quote I meant to pull from Sheila's comment was this: "Sounds distinctly dodgy to me" --

I'm not interested in their business practices/job offer since they're not interested in being transparent -- case closed.

What ended up being more interesting to me, actually, was the variety of responses this post received.

I'd like to warn those who felt I should pursue the job ... that their email response was less than professional in my humble opinion.

Why borrow problems???


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:24
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Simple Aug 2, 2011

Laurie Price wrote:
How can I even research who this company is or where they really are? The job post says "US" -- that's a BIG country ... & the contact's name and style of English are clear indicators of eastern European background ... & for all I know, the whole thing's legit!

To me the matter is simple: no answer to my questions, no proper identification I can verify out of the web, no PO or explicit order by email? Then no agreement, and no work done.


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 03:24
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Drop it Aug 3, 2011

I don't respond to e-mails that do not address me by name and don't accept any job offer that is not signed with the person's name and company name. I don't think that this is a serious offer and suggest that you drop it.

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